It really makes me think Nintendo has an untapped market here to sell a little box you plug into your PC that plays switch games, interfaces with their controllers, etc. They've done oddball stuff like the SNES Gameboy player and GameCube GBA player add-ons in the past. It feels like there would be people willing to pay to properly play Switch games on their gaming PCs.
It seems unlikely they would be willing to let go of control like that. With all their oddball stuff, you were still largely within the Nintendo ecosystem. They also probably don't want to deal with the piracy problem on PC, considering they already deal with it on their relatively locked-down consoles.
For better or for worse, Nintendo also likes to really control the experience you get playing games on their platforms; It would probably not be a great look for them to have to deal with thousands of customers that are trying to run their games on hardware older than a Switch and complaining that it's a terrible experience. Yeah the existing hardware is underpowered, but its uniformly underpowered, and that's worth quite a bit too.
I think for Nintendo, the more prudent solution would be to release an updated Switch with some more powerful hardware that's fully backwards compatible with the existing Switch library. It would be very par for the course for them, and assuage most of the complaints about the Switch being underpowered.
I don't own a switch but I'd much prefer to play a fully tested game the way the developers intended. My pc could run it no problem (rtx 3070 etc), but if I ever do play it, it will be on a switch.
Anyway your point is a bit differen, that Nintendo could make money on this etc.
So you can enjoy the same titles on the go as you can on the TV, and you could still use the Switch on the TV, but there would be an alternative for people who want a more high fidelity, fluid experience on a TV or a monitor.
It doesn't even have to be that much more powerful. Even when sticking to the same vendor, a 2018 Nvidia ARM chip had roughly 3-4x the CPU power and 10x the GPU power of the Switch, in a 15-60W power budget. This would be fine for a console that's always plugged into the power mains.
Going to more midrange vendors like Rockchip or Mediatek, or - and this is a long shot - striking a deal with Samsung for using their Exynos chips would probably yield a lower cost device but still net a 4-5x increase in gaming performance.
Emulation has proven that the games are not tied so tightly to their hardware platform for switching to a more modern architecture while maintaining compatibility to be an issue. Even without first-party involvement people have been running Switch games on mobile Android devices with a good processor.
Can also play at ultrawide 21:9 if you have a monitor like that.
The game is nowhere near tears of the kingdom level and the experience is better. So I understand why people want a better switch
Games that are more locked down and walled than Apple products, that run 30fps on the oldest hardware possible in 2023, made by a company that actively alienates its own fanbase with aggressive copyright claims over the silliest things?
No thanks. Really, you can keep them out of the PC market.
And based on unit sales, that strategy seems to be doing pretty well.
https colon slashslash thepiratebay DOT org slash description.php?id=68303898 (slightly broken for inadvertent link click)
And https://github.com/Abd-007/Switch-Emulators-Guide/blob/main/... for a howto install Ryujinx/Yuzu Switch emulators.
But yeah, games arent my cup of tea, but I did try it. And it's BUTTER SMOOTH on real computer hardware. And yeah, we pierats had it before legit purchase. Again, pirates get the best experience and legit gets meh.
> It really makes me think Nintendo has an untapped market here to sell a little box you plug into your PC that plays switch games, interfaces with their controllers, etc. They've done oddball stuff like the SNES Gameboy player and GameCube GBA player add-ons in the past. It feels like there would be people willing to pay to properly play Switch games on their gaming PCs.
I guess they could do that, but that would cannibalize sales of their consoles. And then, what makes them any different than Steam?
The biggest benefit of a Switch is it's handheld and portable. The biggest pirate downside is that it nearly necessitates a desktop with significantly better equipment. I've heard some work being done with the Steam handheld.. but subpar at best.
I tried one of the popular Switch emulators, and they work great. But, I'd rather just pay Nintendo, and not have to fiddle with it. Really does seem like an opportunity for them.
They’d never do this in a million years.
I understand the concept of games needing to be "hard" in some parts, and that making your grind to get stronger to win is a thing... but sometimes I just want to mess around and play through the story, and games like zelda ones (and GTA series and many others) are one of those.
Sadly, cheats have turned into microtransactions (be it crystals, gems or amiibos).
Maybe Nintendo will buckle under the $$$ figure they could earn by making their games available on other platforms.
On the other hand, Nintendo could make a killing releasing a "Switch 2" with beefier hardware and backwards compatibility.
Neophyte question here, but what's the 3d engine used for this game? can you just change a parameter to make the game more realistic if the hardware supports it?
I have legally purchased all my switch games but I make backups and play on PC sometimes just because it is a better experience.
It might be true, but at the same time it feels disingenuous to compare unreleased games on switch to a pirated PC. “Much more enjoyable” can’t be a thing until you compare, right?
When I played Breath of the Wild, I felt ... nothing. It's not that I hated the game, it was even enjoyable up to a point, but I just can't seem to get as excited about it as many others, and it seems to be missing everything I loved about Zelda. I'm also not a huge fan of open world games in general and to this date, the only one that I think pulled this of well is IMHO Witcher 3 where every side quest feels meaningful.
So I wish everyone a ton of fun with Tears of the Kingdom, but I feel no particular urge to play it right now, given that it appears to largely copy BotW's formula from what I've read. Maybe I will pick it up at some later point.
That's not to discount the criticisms or "feel" you get from the game, but it's worth noting that nothing lives up to our childhood favorites.
Part of it is just controls. BotW is nice and responsive, and Geralt feels incredibly sluggish in comparison because of all the presumably mocapped animations that have to play for every single little thing you do. Try running forward and turning around to run backwards in both games. Gerald has a hell of a time coping, but Link just does it.
Part of it though was definitely the design of the open world. The Witcher 3 just feels claustrophobic. You can't walk two steps without having to collect herbs or fight drowners or talk to NPCs. BotW spaces things out more, and I feel the pacing is improved by this.
My interest in video games declined greatly as the trend in the video game industry shifted toward heavy violence and more realistic graphics. Fast forward to last year, I decided to pick up the Switch as I found one for a really good deal. I wanted to try the new (to me) Zelda. I felt pretty unimpressed, decent not great. As it turned out, I had mistaken the much hyped BoTW release with the Zelda release that I bought. I was playing Skyward Sword.
Once I realized my error, I picked up BoTW and took it for spin. I now think the hype is totally justified. I got all the feelings I felt with OoT. It's been wonderful so far. I'm only about halfway through and stocked for Tears of the Kingdom.
Interesting. Opposite for me. Playing BotW reignited the feeling of playing OOT and MM for me.
My biggest criticism was how much like it felt like you were canonically in a game. Link with his iPad complete with selfie camera, and the clearly computer-generated matrix-y shrines, and if you went too far towards the mountains a "You can't go further that way" message, the strongest feeling I got playing that game is that in truth Link is being observed in a simulated fishbowl environment. A cool idea for a game to lean into, maybe, but not in this case.
Maybe it's an age thing? My first Zelda was the original Legend of Zelda, and while I absolutely love the whole series (except for Tri Force Heroes), Breath of the Wild brought me back to the feeling of playing the original like nothing has since. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were huge, but I was already in college at that point.
Compare that with the "old" Zelda formula: you have to do dungeons in order, because the item you get in each dungeon unlocks the way forward on the overworked or in the dungeon. There are few to no side quests that aren't actually necessary to beat the game. Each dungeon (and overworld region) has a completely different visual aesthetic.
I think a middle ground would lead to a much better experience. Talking just about BOTW, imagine if 2 of the dungeons had to be done first, but each of those gave some item or ability that allowed you to complete one of the other ones. Or if the game was divided in half like most Zelda games are (light/dark world, young/old link), this makes you feel like you've accomplished something and are moving into a new chapter of the story.
The Shrines were a huge part of why I was so unimpressed with BotW, because they were all so transparently made piecemeal. "Open World" doesn't mean a whole lot when you're expected to complete random identically flavored puzzles every 15 minutes.
I can also picture how Shrines were engineered in a fast-food style assembly line: "Nintendo Engineering Team 46-b, you're being assigned Shrines 5-23, complete them in x weeks."
Even barring Shrines, the "Open World" itself was fairly devoid of interesting things.
I also don't like replaying games - I've tried this a few times but once the nostalgia wears off I don't find it fun. Maybe my brain knows I did it already so it feels like chores? I don't know what it is but I just don't really replay things at all. This means I pretty much don't play Nintendo titles because they are all revivals/remakes of the same IP. Its-a-me Mario, again.
BOTW is certainly different regarding its core game design, but then again Majora's Mask and OOT are incredibly different in design as well. Look at the contrast between the first NES Zelda and Zelda II. Compare the SNES/N64 titles to 4 Swords on GameCube as well.
My point is there is incredible gameplay variation in the Zelda franchise historically. While they've often come back to release more "classic" Zelda games, Nintendo has _always_ tried new mechanics and gameplay loops. Some of these titles that deviate from the core/classic design have major flaws, but I think it is important for a game development studio to branch out and deviate from their "winning" formula.
Good game, but seems to be a fair amount of herding/rose colored glasses with reviewers.
In theory they sound great. In reality it seems to work against every open-world game I've played. Elden Ring is almost an exception, but the side quests are completely broken in this format without following a guide.
I hated the Witcher 3. Much like RDR 2 it has great presentation, writing and VA - and everything else suffers. But it seems the new generation of gamers have spoken, and they like glorified interactive television with a low bar for gameplay.
It also just wasn't that creative.. a very safe Zelda. Majora's Mask was much better though.
Interestingly, Breath of the Wild is the first modern game I can remember that brought back that sense of wonder I had as a kid.
I am very similar to you in that Ocarina of Time was a game that blew my mind and converted me from "kid who plays some video games" into "video gamer". I couldn't get enough of it. And while I also yearn for that older style of Zelda adventure, I find that because I always loved the puzzles, that experimenting in the shrines and around the world with BOTW brings me some level of enjoyment. However, I agree that I am not as "over the moon" with this style of game like some others are.
There was something fun about getting Nintendo Power and the guidebooks which sticks with me as well. Super nostalgic
Majora's mask is hugely underrated IMO. It's on par with OOT for me.
TOTK is just bigger and better than BOTW in every conceivable way. It's the perfect video game sequel.
How does Nintendo pull it off?
(And Nintendo engineers can have perfect knowledge of "the constraints of the platform", because 1. they built the platform; 2. it's the only platform they ever code for, never porting to anything else; and 3. for late-in-generation titles, they have been developing for it for years already, while also doing platform-SDK support for every third-party development studio.)
Oh, and besides that, because they design each platform initially specifically to work well for the types of games they want to make. (This goes all the way back to the Famicom, which has hardware PPU registers that were specifically implemented clearly to make the launch-title port of Donkey Kong extremely easy to code.)
Another interesting perspective is that it—a game made at the end of the Switch's life (we hope)—is only marginally prettier and more polished than BOTW—a launch title. I would still hold BOTW as one of the prettiest Switch titles, including third parties (I realise this is subjective). I'm not sure of another console where you don't make graphical progress in 6 years of it existing. I don't know why this is, or even if it's a failing, I just think it's interesting.
A great example is the size of Super Mario Odyssey being 5.7GB and a save file from NBA2k18 being 5GB. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/09/super_mario_odysse...
I can count the triangles on a lot of geometry visibly, and the textures are so blurred it looks like you take any modern PC game and only render the lowest available level of detail of all the textures. I can count the pixels in the shadows on the floor and lighting wise the game is extremely basic (it doesn't need to be more because of the art style). most effects you see in the game are literally blurry billboarded (but granted alpha blended) sprites, including the clouds that are so important in this games visuals.
and to top it off we're in 2023 with half the people or more on 4k screens and the game doesn't even manage native 900p most of the time.
the art design of the game is just designed well around those constraints. very well. but the devs likely did nothing super special to make it run well.
While not a deal breaker, BOTW with zero waiting 5-10s for fast travel or shrines or loading saves would have been a MUCH smoother experience.
At some point I have to wonder if the reason we have so much computing power is so we can use that computing power.
Make sure to get also Super Mario Odyssey. This game is just such a joy. It feels like a trip to a funfair every time.
And sure, Mario Kart 8 for some multiplayer fun.
6 years in, and the Switch is still the most used console in my family with 3 kids.
I don't know what games you're playing but my experience pretty much across the board with the switch is "frustratingly long" loading times. Metroid dread is one of the more recent games I played and the loading screens are painful. Especially compared to a PS5. Check out something like Spiderman for how good it can be.
> And tbh, I didn’t see a lot of difference in terms of graphics.
Then you're not the target audience. Look at TOTK beside Ratchet and Clank on PS5. The difference is night and day.
I have uncapped gigabit internet. (Like many of us, I WFH, and want the most "internet" I can get.) I recall redownloading a game I wanted to play recently. It was 40GB. I thought I would go get a coffee while I waited. It was done before I rounded up and got my shoes on. I don't think the game and update sizes really matter to most of the target demographic of a current-gen console any more. But, hey, I could be extrapolating my experience in a terribly shortsighted way.
I was so used to older consoles being bundled with games after a couple years after being released
When I first got a PS4 it was bundled with GTAV and Last of Us. Pretty incredible deal.
Game aside, the reviews have been pointing out how the game performs well (after day 1 patch) and is not pestered with bugs, which is an impressive feat for such an open world game where most things are able to interact with everything else.
Notable in that regard: Apple did the same under Steve Jobs. Focus on the important part, and don't play around.
Nintendo made blogs take down the pictures of the slides afterwards, but here is a good summary:
One big thing they pointed out is the type of gaming they target. While the Playstation and Xbox general aim for very serious, high "skill" players, Nintendo often launches just above the seriousness and skill level of mobile gamers. It's easy for me to sit down with my extended family and play Mario Party or Mario Kart, but they'd hate me if I had them play Elden Ring. They also are strongly against much of the free to play content.
I left that episode questioning how much of Nintendo's recent success is due to them outcompeting versus the competition making a series of unforced errors.
Game maker's toolkit has one on how they solved their open world problem for BotW:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzcVs8tNfE
And at GDC, they talked about their Chemistry engine for BotW:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyMsF31NdNc&t=2354s
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk5swSyJ5zQ
Game historian has some tidbits of how they made certain design decisions for their successful games
Mario Kart:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDHZKYETDyU
Super Mario World:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2bTQK6vbKI
Super Mario Bro 3:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxT6IwUtLSU
GMT, Snowman, and Extra credit does analysis of how Nintendo designs their Mario levels.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBmIkEvEBtA
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KVEjhT4wQ
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwj3On5o58U
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fI9pfDf60g
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2wGpEZVgE
Generally, it follows the ramp up and down of the Hero's journey in storytelling.
1. Introduce a new mechanic in a safe area where it's impossible to die.
2. Increase the challenge with the mechanic by adding variations
3. Ramp up challenge even more by combining with previously learned mechanic
4. Have periods of rest inbetween the challenges.
Being exceptional is, by definition, exceptional.
To implement both at the same time is quite something if you ask me.
Basically by doing development like we used to do in the 8 and 16 bit home computer days.
If TOTK has the same system, I'm returning it.
As it is, I still end up buying ever more sword slots because I always have more than I can really use.
Like BOTW, even from the very beginning of the game, you never run out of weapons/always have more weapons than slots, so for anyone else, I'd recommend not worrying about it. There's a new modding mechanic that makes swapping around weapons even more fun now.
I'm worried about something else personally - the whole system of building things with random parts looks extremely janky. I was hoping it's only going to be required to solve a few puzzles and that's it, but according to some reviews the entire world is designed around you building this stuff. Well, I'm going to have a try this weekend, but it might end up on eBay by Monday :/
Yes, it does suffer from the “never use my best item cuz I might need it later”-issue that you also have in final fantasy.
I just ended up storing my best weapons in my house on display.
I do not see what Nintendo sees that this system added to the game.
It does have the same weapon breaking system. A video showed a stick breaking after hitting an enemy long enough.
But
You have a new "combination" power now. The same video showed that you could combine the stick with a stone. It was mentioned that "this is more durable". Perhaps one can keep combining stones to a weapon in order to increase durability? We will see.
The sandbox stuff sounds amazing in a Minecraft/Garry's Mod kinda way, but those never caught me so I hope it brings joy to many others.
One quote from a reviewer that I remember - “I didn’t know other games had me in shackles until Breath of the Wild set me free”.
The reviews claim that TOTK has only improved in the immersiveness aspect as well.
The fact that it runs on the switch (and they managed to fit it in 18 GB) is a huge feat.
The thing I didn’t like was its easy to get off track and laborious to get places super quickly.
Also I didn’t really get the food/items/combinations system at all, it’s quite unexplained as far as I could tell.
I guess nostalgia and liking what everyone else says they like is a powerful thing.
e.g. If X is true for you, X is true in general, and therefore what else is "true" must be so given X.
In this case X is Breath of the Wild being "boring".
By failing to correctly recognize that there can be things about the world other people experience, that you do not, you are forcing yourself to assume others must be
liking what everyone else says they like
When something is true for you... that's it. You can't draw many conclusions from that single data point. You necessarily need to include the perspectives of others to properly triangulate what might be before attempting to draw any conclusions.
There are so many infinite ways the video game Breath of the Wild could be popular without that negative and misleading worldview needing to be the reason, but you limit your capacity to understand those other reasons, and empathize with others, if everything you subjectively experience must also be objective fact.
Initially, I did not like this mechanism, but I have come to appreciate it. It reduces your comfort, but you experience more of the game.
[1] Fighting a Lynel and "consuming" all your weapons before he even reaches half his health has happened to me a couple of times.
I found horizon to be visually beautiful but the open world aspect not all that interesting personally.
Zelda, I came to it after hearing people praising it as the best game ever made. For me it’s a solid 8/10 game but definitely not all that incredible. Some of the mechanics are frustrating like the breaking weapons as you mentioned. I found the open world lacking in life. You can explore, sure, but there’s not much to do.
Vast parts of it are just empty stretches with enemies here and there and nothing really happens in that world.
I think both are excellent games but neither of them made me want to immerse myself in the worlds they were set in and neither made me want to come back for more.
BOTW, on the other hand, has the usual Nintendo good-vs-evil story, but everything else is basically perfect. The gameplay is incredibly fluid, the world is immersive, the soundtrack is great. Even "bad" mechanics like the weapon durability one have their place - they force you to experiment in the sandbox and try out more stuff instead of just killing one lynel and keeping his sword.
Zelda, I just had to drop. The weapons breaking alone was just so annoying, and most of the shrines feel like a chore. I liked the exploration, but it felt like every game mechanic the game had to offer was here to get in the way of me progressing.
I’ve played Breath of the Wild for many hours. I agree on the weapon breaking thing, probably one of the most frustrating parts of the game and I still don’t understand why they did that.
This new game looks even better too from what I have seen.
But in the end, I enjoyed Horizon’s tight combat system much more than BOTW.
With a Zelda I've only ever played the original NES one and liked the time I spent. With MegaMan it's always been the off shoots. MegaMan Soccer was constantly rented growing up and Battle Network was great.
But what's weird to me is that I've never enjoyed any of the 3d Zelda games, but still consider the MegaMan Legends series among the best games I've ever played. I'm still bitter I bought a 3ds specifically in anticipation of the third game and it was then cancelled.
That’s an impressive achievement for a team that had to beat the high bar they set with Breath of the Wild. Kudos to them!
The sheer perfection of the Zelda games are just mindblowing to me. I replayed The Legend of Zelda many years ago and it was obvious that the gameplay was still holding up. They got it right from the absolute beginning. And not only that, it is basically the same gameplay still used (at least up to Twilight Princess which is the last major Zelda game I played. They are so consistent.
Based on the trailers I've seen of tears of the kingdom(and I've been trying to avoid that because spoilers) this game walks even further down the path that breath of the wild set out!
We're kind of alike you and I,I think. While I don't have kids that keep me from gaming, I could do without it all, except for Zelda. My switch is currently downloading totk.
Having played so many games, and having even worked at Nintendo for a good time, I’ve lost my sense of wonder somewhat and I only expect to have a few more moments like that in the rest of my life. Nintendo is nevertheless possibly one of the few companies still capable of pulling it off.
- Flying islands and robots remind Laputa's castle in the Sky
- Villains with lots of tentacles look like demons in Mononoke
- Small villages have a Nausicaa feel
- The music borrows a lot from joe hisaishi.
I wish I had the kind of time I had when I was a kid... That stuff looks amazing.
- Flying islands: also featured in several previous Zelda games including Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword. It's become a fairly common anime trope, though Laputa is definitely the oldest instance I can come up with.
- Villains with lots of tentacles: That's a very common thing in Japanese media and seems to go back much further than modern anime.
- I haven't watched Nausicaa yet (though I do have it in a Ghibli collection box that I've been slowly working my way through with my family). However, I feel the Zelda villages are basically just picturuesque Japanese countryside.
- I am really looking forward to hearing more of it than I did through the trailers. So far, though, it sounds very much like a riff off of the soundtracks of earlier Zelda games. It makes sense that they're similar. After all, Koji Kondo (who wrote the music for many of the earlier Zelda games) is also Japanese and started his career shortly after Joe Hisaishi. They likely had similar influences.
I'm somewhat amazed how each Zelda (or Mario for that matter) title is essentially exactly the same story over and over, but still with enough changes to make it feel totally new again. Sure, a lot of the mechanics are the same as in BOTW (the good and the bad), maybe more of an evolution than a revolution, but critics saying it's like a DLC for BOTW are wrong.
They have great storyTELLING, I guess, since it's presented fairly beautifully, but "man wants to take over world, hero must stop him, princess also involved" is not... particularly revolutionary.
Tears is an absolutely brilliant game that suffers from 20-30fps and incredibly conspicuous pop-ins.
I’ve been using a PS4 controller which really helps with avoiding cramping on tiny controllers. Though I’ve heard the Pro Controller is great too. But in general I find myself enjoying the game despite the hardware.
"But why are you here on Hackernews idk1?"
Well let me tell you, according to a text message, Terry from DPD is delivering my game between 9:53am and 10:53am so I'm currently perched in my front window waiting for it.
(I'm not a digital copy person for all the normal reasons, I can't lend it out, I can't re-sell it in a year, I lose it if I lose my Nintendo account, etc.)
The Switch was underpowered at launch, but that kept it affordable I guess. I hope they do a revision, they tried that with the "New Nintendo 2/3DS" but I don't believe that was very successful - only a handful of games came out targeting the hardware refresh. No games company wanted to leave the millions of regular 2/3DS consoles behind.
I also like that some games like Disco Elysium, Neverwinter Nights, etc. - these older PC games which work fine on Switch are being ported over. Happy to pay a little more to get the physical cartridge and play it on the Switch - though paying $55.99 for Skyrim seems a little steep to me so I'll continue playing that on Gamepass.
Waiting for my copy of Tears of the Kingdom to arrive today. In the meantime I'm finishing up Metroid: Dread and enjoying that quite a bit too!
Maybe we are not looking at the same games but the ones I’m looking at are significantly cheaper as cartridge than download (Zelda and Mario, fx)
And the fixed the performance issues too, even Digital Foundry was impressed at how drastic of a change the day one patch was compared to the cartridge version.
For people wanting to see spoilers and the cool craziness that can be achieved in the game: https://old.reddit.com/r/TOTK/
(0) Not sure if this is going to change immediately after release
I couldn't care less whether the graphics are hd, 4k, hdr, dolby whatever, 120fps.
The game is fun on the Switch.
All of the reviews, including the Digital Foundry one were playing it on the OLED model, which - including the 2nd gen one, have higher clock rates and improved many FPS dips in BOTW.
Nintendo's ability to make games is undeniable. Their raw numbers hardware though has been lacking for every generation starting with GameCube. I just don't get it.
This and breath of the wild are completely different games when played at 60fps and a reasonable resolution.