Discussing pay is awkward, so most people don't. But this creates an imbalance of power in salary talks. A person I trust who was recently promoted was offered in the range of $55K for their new role. However, I know of one or two people who were hired into the same role from outside the company who apparently started at $70K+.
I suspect that internal candidates have less leverage in pay negotiations than do external hires. I think most people probably won't decline a promotion, even if the raise is weak, because the alternative is no promotion and no raise. Transparency corrects this imbalance.
Me:
Position: Developer (not classified as SDE, do not manage ppl) Tenure: 2 years Job Level: 5 Base Pay: $73,000 Signing Bonus: $25k Year 1, $21k Year 2 2016 Stock Vest: 104 shares LY Review Score: Exceeds LY Pay Increase: 4%, plus 35 shares of AMZN Most Recent Promotion Increase/Stock Grant: N/A - no promotions Gender: M Native English Speaker: Yes
If you're wondering about Native English Speaker, I included it because I think it might be interesting.
I'm not aware of any Amazon policy which prohibits sharing one's own compensation, but I still made a throwaway. A shift of power is never welcomed by those whose authority is diminished.[2]
To non-Amazonians, perhaps you could start an "Ask HN: How much do you make at XYZ" for your own employer so you and your coworkers can share the same thing. Comparing compensation for different companies could also be interesting.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation
[1] That isn't to suggest that I suspect Amazon of taking part in any illegal activity. I don't believe Bezos would even entertain the idea. I like Amazon, and overall I'm happy here. What I want is a more fair salary negotiation process.
[2] http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd134371.html
Position: Senior Software Engineer (level 5)
Tenure: 4 years, no prior experience
Comp: $300K (160 salary, 40 bonus, 100 stock)
Male, native English speaker
P.S. We're hiring.
$180k/year 15% bonus ~ $30k/year 600 RSUs in the first year = $440,000 400 RSUs in the second year = $280,000 200 RSUs in 3rd and 4th year (assuming no refreshers, and oh boy there will be refreshers!)
Male, native english speaker.
It helps that my prior job had a comp level around $480k/year and also I got hired when GOOG was $550/share.
BTW, the T-5 salary band ends at $180k. So you're pretty close. Its the RSUs that make all the difference.
I started a discussion for Google salaries here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11314449
If you have a chance, can you send the link to your colleagues at Google? (-:
* Accept a job somewhere
* Get promoted (doesn't matter how)
* let yourself get hired away from your current company
Getting hired away from your current company is the only way to get a fair raise based on increased experience. Companies never give substantial raises to current employees.
Our company intentionally hires juniors so that we can groom them as they grow. I was one of those juniors < 5 years ago and I've increased my salary > 100%.
I do think that overall switching employers makes it easier to get a raise, because a current employer is more likely to know your true market rate making it harder to convince them to pay you above that, or even at that rate (with them figuring you won't leave for a small difference).
You do have to be careful not to become a 'job hopper'. When i see a resume where somebody never stayed somewhere more than 18 months i'll figure we won't be any different and am less inclined to give a thumbs up to HR if that person needs a sizeable training investment from my part.
I was a systems engineer in Dublin and the only significant payraise I got was after I left the company for 4 months to then rejoin, my salary was bumped up 12k euros, for a total of 62k/yr, with 150 shares over 4 years (sorry I do not remember the vesting scheme).
The HR department in AMZN has the tendency to screw internal employees upon promotion. The way it was unofficially explained to me by a low-level buddy in HR is that there are salary ranges for each corporate level, and during a promotion you get just over the lower bound of the salary range for your new corp level, that's the policy, that's what happens.
New hires instead have negotiation margin and, while the hiring manager can't offer a salary higher than the approved salary range, more often than not the offer will end up in the upper bound of the range, to lure the candidate in.
Furthermore, there are huge differences between salary ranges in job roles, a Systems Engineer will always be paid 15 to 30% less than a Software Development Engineer at the same level, despite the fact that the skills and duties are not that much different, why? Again unofficially "because Amazon values more people that write software". Except the fact that in my ex-team, we all wrote software and the expectations were all the same regardless the job title (there was however a difference between levels).
So yeah, as internal promotion you have absolutely NO leverage regarding salary, if you want a salary increase and your organization is hungry for people but is having trouble in hiring (like it happens frequently in Dublin where the job market is quite competitive), I'd suggest you start looking around for a new job, accept the offer and then come back to your same team 4 months later. If you leave the company for less than 6 months and your position hasn't been filled in the meantime, the hiring manager is able to extend an offer without sending you through an interview loop, you'll get your old job back but with a nice pile of money on top.
Personally, this netted me a 10% base pay increase. More counting the performance stock bonus that came with the change.
Were your offices by that famous Gaol? I thought it was interesting seeing a mix of the old and new so close together.
In the past couple of months this was fixed by the creation of a new role called 'Systems Development Engineer'.
But what? Returning to the employer you quit from seems like a terrible idea. If it was years later, maybe you could explain it away with interview BS like "changing direction" or "finding your place."
But months later makes you not much better than the guy who shows his boss an offer from another company to negotiate a raise. It might work in the short term, but then you're branded as a flight risk. The next time they need to lay someone off (or if you slip up and they have a legitimate reason to fire you) you'd be high up on their list of disposable employees, perhaps moreso because you're more expensive than you were before.
Passes the virtual whiskey
Because, man, I won't even tell you what people in the real industry get paid :-)
But, that may mean I just need to stop trying to make a living out of Open Source software. ~20 years of it might be a sign it's time to try some other approach.
Holy shit, I am under paid.
I was hired after a year out of college in 2010 at aboyt $37k and it felt like I hit the lottery. Granted, where I live costs much less than Seattle, and I also make significantly more now, but still not $90k.
Tell you what, with a Bachelor's in Chemistry (in my year 176 people started, only 42 finished the degree so it's not a free lunch) I can expect to make between 40K and 60K CAD out of college and pay higher taxes than in the US. With a master's that I'm working towards, I'd be on the upper end of that spectrum. So boo-hoo to those making only 125K with equity and benefits.
:/
>> You're not getting "ripped off" by having a base salary of 125K USD (with benefits and equity) fresh out of college.
Nowhere in the thread has anyone used the term "ripped off" so I'm not sure why you put it in quotes. Your assumption that I am fresh out of college is wrong.
>> So boo-hoo to those making only 125K with equity and benefits.
I think you are misunderstanding the point of the discussion. No one is seeking any sort of pity, as you seem to be suggesting. No one here is suggesting that $125K is nearing poverty.
What we are doing is questioning the paradigm of employers enjoying a superior bargaining position in salary negotiations as a result of a social dynamic that we ourselves are furthering. Specifically, a reluctance to openly discuss compensation.
>> Tell you what, with a Bachelor's in Chemistry (in my year 176 people started, only 42 finished the degree so it's not a free lunch) I can expect to make between 40K and 60K CAD out of college and pay higher taxes than in the US. With a master's that I'm working towards, I'd be on the upper end of that spectrum.
If you are unhappy with your career choice, why don't you do something else?
A chemical engineer with a BS in Alberta can make $120k CAD base-pay, easily.
>and pay higher taxes than in the US.
A San Franciscan making $120k USD pays $46,176 USD in taxes (state+fed)
An Albertan making $120k CAD pays just $32,974 CAD in taxes (prov+fed)
When software engineers want $120k, they move to SF/Seattle and work for <soul-crushing corporate tech-company>. If you want $120k, move to Alberta and work for a gas company.
The vast majority of software engineers (let-alone 'entry level' SEs) in the US aren't making six figures. The ones who move to tech-topia and work for tech-giant and end up getting paid 20% less than their peers who did the same ARE getting ripped off.
That said, amazon pays new grads pretty okay, and if you get a promotion between 2 and 3 years your new salary should be pretty competitive.
I have to praise Google for the way the situation was handled: the company didn't force the spreadsheet to be taken down (in fact, it's still up as I write this), nobody that I know of was fired for it and it generated a healthy amount of internal discussion. After hearing some stories from the Amazon counter part, I wouldn't expect the reaction to be the same.
Taking action against this would've been a violation of US labor law with steep penalties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
The original creator of the spreadsheet claimed that she was retaliated against in the form of her manager rejecting peer bonuses sent to her.
Different people have different preferences, and some managers probably have mistaken beliefs about what is good for them and their employees.
E: Why the downvotes?
http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies...
Hired: 2011
- Level: SDE I (4)
- Location: San Francisco
- Salary: $96k base, $20k bonus, relocation, ~160 stock over 4 years.
- Average yearly total comp: ~ $150k
Promoted: 2013
- Level: SDE II (5)
- Location: San Francisco
- Salary: $110k base, 168 stock
- Average yearly total comp: ~ $170k
Relocated: 2015
- Level: SDE II (5)
- Location: Seattle
- Salary: $125 base, ~160 stock, relocation
- Average yearly total comp: ~ $190k
In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different.
* Area: Seattle, WA
* Position: SDE
* Base Pay: $90k
* Signing Bonus: $20k immediately, then $17k paid in 12 monthly installments after you reach 1yr in employment.
* Stock Units: $53k (5% at 1yr mark, 15% at 2yr mark, then 20% every 6 months from then on) Note: this vesting schedule is AWFUL.
Needless to say, I rejected this offer and did not work for them. Best decision I ever made.
Your total comp in year one would have been 112.6k which seems about right. The stock price doubled last year, so you would have been looking at at least 125k in year two.
Sites like Glassdoor are useful, but what they don't provide is company-specific detail. I can view Amazon's average SDE salary, but is that figure for a job level 4 or job level 5? (At Amazon, pay is based on job levels. Two people can hold the same position but have different job levels. For example, Area Managers who are promoted from hourly positions start at level 4, but new hire AMs come in at L5).
Other things Glassdoor can't provide:
-Pay increase percentages for internal promotions
-Pay increases and stock award amounts for annual performance reviews based on performance grade
-Compensation data broken down by race, national origin, native language, etc.
-Differences in pay for positions based on team, department, geographic location, etc.
Base is $145k. Signing bonus $50k year 1, $40k year 2. Stock 350 shares over 4 years. 5%/15%/40%/40% No promotions or reviews yet.
In summary: about $200k total comp first two years, from then on variable based on stock. I expect about $225 to $250k in 2016.
Tenure: 4 years
Job Level: 5
Base Pay: $143,000
2016 Stock Vest: about 140 shares
Review Score: Exceeds
Gender: M
Native English Speaker: Yes
Company: small, non-startup software company in DFW
Position: Senior Research Software Engineer
Tenure: 4 years
Experience: 14 years (4 EE, 2 non-IT SysE, 8 SwE)
Salary: $92,500 (started at $78,000)
Signing bonus: $0
Yearly bonus: $0
Stock: 0
Many of the comments here make me feel like I ab seriously underpaid. However, over the past several years in my interactions with prospective new companies (ranging from startups to subsidiaries of huge defense contractors) I get the impression that my salary is slightly above average.
It only takes one person to set a price provided they honestly believe in they value... and that person can be you.
I've been a software engineer at a small software company ~20 employees for 3 years now, but I've only been out of school for a year and I make $75k.
[1] https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-san-francisco-ren...
Source: I was hired at Amazon as an SDE1 in 2004 at a base salary of $85,000.
Are you still at Amazon? If so, what is your current salary?
1 - Full-time freelance audiobook editor.
$30/hr
2 - Post-Production Associate - Level 6/4
$50,000/yr
35 shares of AMZN per year for three years
3 - ACX Production Coordinator - Level 7/5
$65,000/yr
Additional 20 shares of AMZN per year for three years
I am no longer ashamed to write these figures out to the public because I now make more than twice the salary that I was making before I left the company. I found that my salary at Amazon was always far too low given what I did, and my job titles were not at all representative of the job I actually did (for the 2nd and 3rd jobs they were almost entirely software engineering jobs.)
NOTE: Audible and Amazon have different job levels - Audible's job levels are two points higher than the same Amazon job level.
Salary: $115k base, no regular bonus or stock, $50k offer in stock over 4 years if I remember correctly although I don't know offhand how many units that came out to.
Level: SWE1 (60 internally)
Tenure: 2 years internally, 7 in industry
Yearly pay increase: Averaged ~6k/y thus far.
Internal candidates have NO leverage. The only way to get a promo is to be in the right place at the right time, and have both high visibility and a manager who has proper political influence and will fight for you. If you want a salary boost, leave and come back a year or so later. "Performance" reviews, accomplishments, hours put in, is all moot unless you have the above, in which case it's a nice bit of ammo if your skip level has a lot of competition for his promo budget, but proper political clout can likely force through a promo without. (To add another tidbit that I've always wanted to clear up anonymously: Stack ranking absolutely still exists, if not in a formal process but as a necessity from how budgets are assigned and promos divvied up.)
There's a college hire PM in my team (not PM II, so he's either 59 or 60) who's single and in the 33% bracket. That means he's making at least $189K a year.
Edit: I should add, my PM coworker could be wrong about his tax bracket. I can't fathom how they would offer him that much in base salary + stock. But he did mention being in the 33% bracket.
I used a throwaway account, but I'm sure I'm identifiable by this information if my manager sees this. I'm not too concerned. I think it's in Amazon's and the employees' best interest for this stuff to be transparent. Besides that, while I like my work, I can easily get an offer from Google, Facebook or pretty much anywhere else.
Position: SysDE 2 in AWS Tenure: 1.5 years Job Level: 5 Base: $120000 Stock: 140 RSU (granted at signing, almost none vested) Bonus: $20000 + relocation at signing, $15000 will come after 2 years Gender: M Native English: yes
I was hired at L4 as SE 1, moved to SE 2/L5 after a year, and now SysDE 2. There was no raise for SE2->SysDE2.
Is it still the ridiculous 5-10% year 1, 5-10% year 2, and then the rest spread out over years 3-4?
Location : Eugene, OR.
Position: Assistant Professor of Mathematics Tenure: 3 years Base pay (9 month) $72,000 in 2013, increased to about $75,000 in 2016. (minus union dues). Will increase to $82,000 when I make tenure.
Signing bonus: $0
Stock: $0
Pension : keeping my fingers crossed.
Experience when hire. Ph.D plus 5 years post-doc (at Princeton.)
Gender : M Native speaker: Yes.
I now work in a development position at a large tech company for which I'm overqualified. I work about 7 hours a day plus a couple of meetings. I never work weekends, have plenty of free time to conduct research on the side and make well into 6 figures.
I do not remember the details too much, but it was something like $84K for my first year, after stock and all that nonsense. The salary is not much compared to the US, but very good for South Africa. However, the offer was in Rands, which has since collapsed. I would have lost about 30% of my salary when converting to dollars.
I did not take the job for various reasons, with very few having to do with Amazon. The team itself was excellent and I regret not joining, but I am glad I did not partly because of collapse of the Rand.
I still miss Cape Town. One day I will return for another visit.
EDIT: I can provide more detailed numbers if people are interested. Would need to dig up the offer letter. Very few Americans must have applied like I did, so Amazon could very easily figure out who I am. Hey, I loved your team, it just was not meant to be!
Title : Software Development Engineer (SDE I)
Base : 98,000
Sign on : 50,000 (2 year period)
Relocation : 10,000 (2 year)
Stocks : worth $70,000 (4 years)
Position: Developer (not classified as SDE, do not manage ppl)
Tenure: 2 years
Job Level: 5
Base Pay: $73,000
Signing Bonus: $25k Year 1, $21k Year 2
2016 Stock Vest: 104 shares
LY Review Score: Exceeds
LY Pay Increase: 4%, plus 35 shares of AMZN
Most Recent Promotion Increase/Stock Grant: N/A - no promotions
Gender: M
Native English Speaker: Yes
I chose to not take the offer but went to join a different company.
I just want to say that if you're quitting for reasons other than compensation, then don't ever listen to competing offers from your current team/company. That way you save yourself a ton of regret if your new job doesn't go well. #lesson-learnt-for-me
My base pay was right around $100k. I had a $20k signing bonus the first year, and something effectively similar for the second year (though less cash and some stock was thrown in).
Sr Software Eng at LinkedIn in CA.
$165,000 Base
$25,000 Hiring Bonus
$300,000 Stock (25% 1st year, then quarterly for the remaining 75% over 3 years) ($300,000 at the time, now it's only about half that).
10% annual bonus.
Male. Native English Speaker.
I can also speak to a friend here all the stats are the same except he got a $35,000 moving stipend instead of a hiring bonus.
More info: I was promised a promotion and raise, but the problem was they only do promotions once a year, in april. Once I said I was going to leave, I was offered $120, but I left anyways. Now I moved out of seattle and am making more, but in a lower Cost of living location. Also, I had to pay about 8k for "relocation" back to amazon because I left before 2 years.
As for salary negotiations, the best piece of advice I got was to never say a number. You really don't have to, you can just keep saying some variation of "industry standard", their median salary numbers on Glassdoor, etc.
This is true for Amazon specifically: I never told them a number despite being asked by several different recruiters, and the offer I ended getting was slightly above their average. If you want more than that there may be some other technique involved, but if you're more concerned about being undercompensated, definitely don't get tied to any number.
You're right, I am.
That was a smart move, especially if your skill-set was unique in your company. I've given this advice more times than I can think and I've been ignored at least half of the time. I can think of only one case where it worked out well, but that friend was a CEO at a multi-national and the board of directors was the salary decider. The others were gone within a year.
Be very suspicious if it's a huge increase in salary (or dwarfs your current offer), but generally any "counter offer" is not a good idea to take.
When you get a large counter offer, you have to think one thing: Why?
At first you may be inclined to think "It took me having a foot out the door before they finally valued me!" Unfortunately, what they've valued is the risk you represent. Within a few days, after your manager has discussed "contingency plans" for all of the things you did. You'll be spending the next few months making "the documentation a little more clear" and "cross-training" your colleagues. They may finally fill that position they've been promising to hire for to "give you some help". A few months of this will go on and someone in management will ask how your salary is justified (this will likely not be asked directly to you). Unfortunately, all you've been doing is documenting and training others, the real work that contributes to the bottom line has been ignored and you're now behind! How can they justify paying you so much if you're getting nothing done![1]
I even had a colleague who thought the answer was to turn down the job, take the increase and find another. It might have worked were it not for 2008. He went 6 months unemployed and took a job for a lot less than he was making prior to the increase (specifics were not offered or asked).
[1] It doesn't always (hopefully not even often) happen with such calculation or disregard, but a variation of this almost always plays out.
I think for lasting that long, Amazon really pays off in equity compensation which they dole out willingly (with 4 year cliffs of course).
I made 90k as an SDE I straight of college. 20k sign on bonus. Second year bonus of 15k. 150 shares of stock with the regular 5%, 15%, 20% cliffs. Biggest raise I got was 4k when I received an exceeds.
I have friends who interned the summer before and they were offered the exact same thing. This is for SDE 1 position.
(1) Support Engineer * Base: $72,000; increased at 1yr to $74,000 * Bonus: $20,000; half in first check, other half over months 13-24 * Stock: I don't remember
(2) Software Development Engineer * Base: $82,000
Gender: M Native English: Yes I honestly don't recall if I was L4 or L5 or both.
Both of these were in Seattle. I do know for a fact that there were/are others who were hired and paid more than me.
It'd be nice if people mentioned how many hours/week they work for me to get a good idea of what to expect. Especially since we're talking about Amazon.
Note: as of right now, GlassDoor is down for "Scheduled Maintenance" but the question stands.
Unfortunately, salary "surveys," like the recently-reported Stack Overflow one, or the classic Computerworld one, are much the same. Self-selection ruins the data. The responses have to be random to be useful. And the silly thing is that most people who are involved in this business know this.
You are correct that this is nothing close to scientific, but that is not the goal. The goal is to increase transparency around employee compensation in order to correct the imbalance of power in salary negotiations that results from not knowing what others in similar roles are being paid.
For this, statistically valid data is not necessary. It can be enough to know of one or two individuals' compensation to shift power in a salary negotiation.
1 year prior professional SWE experience at the time of hiring, CS undergrad degree from a state university
Female, mixed ethnicity, American/native English speaker
SWE II, L3
$110k base, ~$45k in stock, 15% target bonus ($172k total assuming stock price stays stable and I make said bonus)
Worth noting that I tried not to give my then-current pay to the recruiter during the hiring process and was (very politely) told that they'd cancel my application if I didn't give them a number. Also tried to negotiate the base salary up (asked for $120k) and again, got very politely told to take it or leave it.
Also if it's an electronic form then I put 1 dollar. It's fun.
* Position: SysDE II
* Base Pay: $120k
* Signing Bonus: $75k over 2 years
* Relocation: Fully paid + $2.5k
* Stock Units: $115k [200 RSUs] (5% at 1yr mark, 15% at 2yr mark, then 20% every 6 months from then on)
* Gender: M
* Native English Speaker: Yes
I have ~2 years of experience.
Base 180k Sign on 80k over two years 189 RSU over four years with 5-15-40-50% vesting schedule.
Here are the results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133LBigv7pOkgpTkA6bHH...
When I was hired I had to tell them "No" and hang up the phone (in the middle of the 2001 recession) to a $63k job offer. They called back the next day and bumped the offer to $70k. I later learned that I had one of the only "strong hires" ever given out by the bar raiser and the HR rep was told to hire me at all costs. HR played (and probably still plays) insanely hard hardball in negotiating salary.
Other SEIIIs hired at around the same time came on at $60-63k and were stuck there. Once the economy recovered in 2003/2004-ish we eventually started hiring SEIIIs at >$120k starting salary.
Gender: M Native English Speaker: Yes for myself and the other two or three employees I'm thinking of.
While the job market seems to be in favor of job seekers these days (it seems to be practically impossible to recruit developers for small/medium shops, you get pinged by recruiters all the time) the salary does not really reflect this. it's rising but pretty moderately. you get offered $100k jobs once a while, mostly in finance.
Also the air gets pretty thin in germany when you actually want to do technically interesting and challenging things. Most jobs on the market are quite dull and involve enterprisey and/or legacy things. Most developers I worked with, however, do not seem to mind the backwardsness, are happily married to their languages and tools, and tend not to be overly passionate about their work (which might just be the right attitude).
This appears to be one of many variables HR uses for salary negotiations and I recognize that. I don't see why this necessarily matters for most work places. Shouldn't you just pay for what the candidate brings to the table (skills, experience, etc.) and not consider what, even someone with a similar background is currently making in the company. I suppose salary negotiations/the labor market isn't an efficient market where a price can be assigned given x, y, & z.
I do have a decade of industry experience. Also my 1 bedroom apartment rent is going to be 2900/month this year (annual lease was 2600/month last year, they raised it by 300 because fuck you where are you going to live, it's 2800/month across the street and do you really want to get roommates in your 30s?)
I don't work for Amazon but here is my salary information, for anyone who is interested
Current position: 50-100 employee startup in Palo Alto, $170k and .1% equity vested over 4 years
Previous position: Google, $130k base, 15-20% annual bonus, around 64 shares vested per year (so around $170k annual net comp) Previous position: Small startup, $90k base
I live in the SF Bay Area. When I interviewed, most offers from startups were in the range of $140k-$170k.
There is negotiation room. However, playing the game of show me your hand first is just plain annoying. Why should a company pay you more than is standard in your role? Are you leaving bonus/stock money on the table to come there? Relocating? Losing money on a lease? Tuition? Costs covered by your current employer or another offer (ie housing, transportation, childcare, etc)?
It's a myth that all companies are out to lowball you. The more successful a company is, the more likely it is that they've realized internal equity is at least as (if not more so) important than being competitive in the market.
Go see twitter #talkpay. A lot of great data points were shared there.
My compensation was as follows: Year 1: 122,000 + 28,000 bonus + Relocation + a lot of other benefits. After that, the base assumably would have went up, but the bonuses I was given were 250 AMZN rsu's 5% after one year anniversary, 15% on the second anniversary, 20% each 6 months after.
Amazon does an amazing job of woo-ing people and making attractive offers, unfortunately they don't put the same effort into retaining their staff.
In my fourth year my total compensation was estimated to be around 120k.
It's worth looking at the H1B data. I've got some limited anecdotal data, but the H1B data appears to clearly delineate the same salary ranges Amazon gives to US Citizens. (Maybe they will pay citizens 10% more, but the ranges actually look pretty similar to what I've heard.)
(I am a US Citizen, English speaker, in Seattle.)
Main moral of the story if you choose to stay at Amazon: don't worry about your level, focus on your job role. You can probably keep doing the work you're doing and become an SDE if you talk to your manager and frame the conversation right.
Roughly $130k a year base, $150k a year in retention and $100k (for one more year) in pre-acquisition stock.
6 years in the industry, no higher education. SDEII (I think?)
- 4 years of experience - Non-native English - They sponsored my H1B application - 145k base - 20k bonus yrs 1 and 2 - 100 RSUs - 15k relocation bonus, 10k extra for relocation expenses. And they give me a full container to move my stuff. - Male
$95k/yr
$27k signing immediate
$20k signing 2 year vesting
$53k stock 2 year vesting
Ended up turning it down because I didn't want to work at Amazon, so no negotiation.
(I saw us make offers as high as 200k for fresh ph.d.'s)
Experience: college hire (beginning of 2015)
Level: 4
Base: $90,000
Signing bonus: $22,000 immediately, $18,000 monthly over 2nd year
Stock: 200 shares of AMZN (5% at 1 year, 15% at 2 years, 20% every 6 months after)
Location: Seattle, WA. Relocation was included over 2 year prorating.
I've been at Amazon for about a year and a half. I always suspected I was quite overpaid. And I'm a non-US citizen on top of it.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure it's illegal as fsck for them to retaliate against you for discussing your compensation.
According to the National Labor Relations Act, enacted in 1935, private-sector employees have the right to engage in "concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection."
Again, I am not a lawyer. Just a bunch of pixels on the screen, really.
http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies...
20+ years experience. Working remote from southeast U.S.A.
Tenure so far: 2.5 years
Salary: $150K
Stock: purportedly .75% of company 4 years 1-year cliff, with small follow-on grant later, don't know what recent dilution is, though I think more recent funding has been "debt" at low interest with preference
Not a regular VC situation, company funded through other means.
Outlook -- real uncertain, market has definite need, execution so far has been very mixed, company willing to re-do things the right way
* Position: Systems Engineer
* Level: 5
* Base Pay: $98k
* Signing Bonus: $18k immediately, 15k over months 12-24
* Stock Units: ~$120k, 5% first year, 15% second, 20% every 6 mo after. Additional (smaller) grants starting year 2.
I'm also an SME & do reviews for a certain book publisher to see if I think it is worthwhile, accomplishes the goals set out by the author & is technically correct. I'm unfortunately currently unemployed, so things suck, but I have no qualms about sharing my salary, where I think I should be & why.
Yes, I may not be using crazy automation stuff & yes, I need to learn something as ubiquitous as VMWare, but it's not hard. A monkey can do those things. What I want to get into is SCCM & serious Windows automation. It's just, the positions are few & far between :-(
Position: SDE 1 Location: Seattle Base: 110,000 Signing: 25k over two years RSUs: 40k when stock was high in 300s
I had a long discussion with manager at the time where I asked the question: "How do I advance my financial career?". We concluded that being an external hire is the best way, and as such, pretty much meant if I wanted more money, get a job elsewhere.
So in the end I did. It was the money that triggered it, but ultimately there were other factors, such as not being given the role I was promised, a miss communication about who would decide my promotion (my old or new department), and of course, being asked to accept a band promotion for no extra money.
I also recall there being published market data you can get from HR which shows the average for your role, and I did notice I was way below average in compensation.
I don't miss leaving one bit.
Beat my best bay area offer overall, so quite good with the low cost of living here. It does seem like you have to move companies every 2 years to keep climbing the salary ladder.
It would be interesting to see the difference in pay in the same company between US and UK offices.
Looking at these numbers makes me wish I had moved to the US when I was younger.
I started out at about 64k which after 2 years on the job became roughly 90k, this year I'm on track to make a little under 100k. I think at the moment my role is the equivalent of an SE II or an SE III.
Because of the place I work at, I don't get stock or profit sharing, etc. I think that software engineers across the board don't receive the right compensation until it becomes shockingly apparent to the company and they risk losing us. Honestly, my org didn't bump my pay up until I started putting out feelers to move on.
iOS Developer
Base Salary: 140k Signon Bonus: 25k Stock / 4 yrs: 200k Annual Bonus: 10%
The job I took this year:
iOS/Android dev Base: 190k Stock / 4 yrs: 3% Bonuses: tied to company revenue
Work History: 4 years over 4 different companies (startups and one big co)
Gender: M
Native English Speaker: Yes
Based in AZ Base Pay: $80,000 Bonus: 12-15% holiday bonus My Experience: 2 years front end dev, self taught. Company: Won't name. But ~200 people in the company. 40ish engineers.
Interviewed with Amazon for Web Dev I . Each time salary was discussed, base range was for 85-115k, sign on of $10-25k and I can't recall stock. Confirmed with friends who work there, all are SDEs making 6 figures.
Throwaway account as well, just want those in my area anyways to be aware that earning potential is good.
question:
why not add your info on glassdoor.com? (is there some evil behind glassdoor I don't know about?)
comment:
Probably worth noting general location of employment, like the metro region you're in.
disclaimer:
I've been researching salary myself in the bay area based on glassdoor data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BoMvtY_mICEYygy0jXVG...
Tenure: 1.2 years
Job Level: 5
Base Pay: $130,000
Signing Bonus: $25k Year 1, ~5k year 2
20XX Stock Vest: 10 shares
LY Review Score: Exceeds
LY Pay Increase: 1.1%
Gender: M
I really enjoyed my job and would go back. No counter offer when I left but that was at my request. Was up for L6 when I left.
I've been a software engineer at a small software company ~20 employees for 3 years now, but I've only been out of school for a year and I make $75k.
Location: Seattle area
Gender: Male
Category [1]: White
English native: no
Age: 35-40
Years in MS: 5
Title [2]: Senior SDE
Level [2]: 63
Hiring bonus: 0
Base salary: ~$140k
Annual bonus: ~16k
Annual stocks: ~17k (over 5 years)
Annual benefits: ~$25k
[1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/interactives/multiracial-time...
[2] http://geekologist.co/decoding-microsofts-sde-titles-and-lev...
Some companies treat this as "you can discuss internally but it's a company trade secret externally" which I don't know how the courts have actually treated it (if at all.)
Salary: $100k Bonus: $25k Stock: I forget but it was not much
Joined: Last year
Base Pay: 145,000
Native English Speaker: Yes
just a word of caution if you do fear retaliation at all. might want to fuzz the numbers a touch.
(I'm not a lawyer; I'm not your lawyer; this is not legal advice.)
Position: Developer (not web)
Age: 25-30
Tenure: 2 years
Initial Salary: $105,000
Current Salary: $120,000
Signing Bonus: 20,000 shares, vesting over 4 years (Taking into account current valuation and strike price, assume stock is worth, to me, ~$0.50/share)
Annual Bonus: None
Additional stock since hiring: 25,000 shares, vesting over 4 years
Gender: M
Native English Speaker: Yes
It is so much better than Glassdoor at dissecting salary data.
Social Security(Baltimore)
Sr. UI/UX Dev
Govt. contract at $75 an hour no benefits
In this area you should strive to move your Dev career towards govt. work; govt contracting being the best in terms of hourly pay.
$165k base 20% annual bonus 200k worth of stock vested over 4 years.
I like the company so I did not negotiate showing the other counter offers I had at the time of joining.
Location: Van, BC
Base: 99k (CAD currency)
Stock vest in 2016: 60 RSU
Tenure: 2 year
Salary: $118.5k
Bonus: $10k
RSUs: 4500 over 4 years
Feel free to share/add to this doc. We'll post this in the Google comp thread too.
Here are the median comps by level for Amazon and Google, just based on the postings collected in the Google doc as of 3/22. --Amazon -- New grad: $141K SDE1: $146K SDE2: $173K SDE3: $250K TPM3: $220K
--Google-- Level 3: $170K Level 4: $200K Level 5: $312K Level 6: $575K T7: $640K Tech Level 5: $660K
Just a few notes - Total comp includes bonus, signing bonus, relocation bonus, and stock. Bonuses and stock were all annualized straight-line. (I know this is not how Amazon stock comp is done, but we assumed this in our calcs.) Since we took postings from 2 different threads, it's possible that one person could have posted once in each thread, in which case that would show up twice in the Google doc. Also, there's a lot of variance particularly with bonuses which are lumped in, and some of the higher levels only have one data point, but you can look at the data in the Google doc if you want to dig in.
If it helps with comparison between Amazon and Google, here's how Amazon levels map to Google's (from Quora: https://www.quora.com/How-do-Amazons-engineering-levels-map-...) Amazon SDE 1 - roughly a Google T3 ("I") or T4 ("II"). Amazon SDE 2 - roughly a Google T4 ("III") Amazon SDE 3 - roughly a Google T5 ("Senior") or T6 ("Staff") Amazon Principal - roughly a Google T6 or T7 ("Senior Staff") Amazon Sr. Principal - roughly a Google T8 ("Principal") or T9 ("Distinguished").
Full disclosure - we're Step (http://www.step.com), and we're building a platform to help engineers and product managers anonymously crowdsource personalized salary and level estimates from decision makers and hiring experts at tech companies. This thread is especially interesting to us, because it shows the need/demand for more transparency around compensation and company feedback. Right now, we're working with ~10 NYC startups that will assign personalized salary/level estimates and other feedback to anonymous profiles, but our bigger vision is that as soon as someone signs up, they'll see how each and every company values them without having to interview/talk to recruiters.
Bob gets hired as a developer in 2012. He's been with the company for 4 years. Bob is a decent developer who gets his work done but makes the occasional mistake. Bob's title is application developer. When Bob got hired he took the job because the pay was as good if not better than his last job and the market was tough back then and he was happy to have the opportunity. Bob makes 50k a year and lives in Florida where the home office of the company is. Bob's title is software developer.
Fast forward to today:
The company is really taken off and they need to hire some top talent and have opened the doors to remote workers. John joined the team back in 2014 at 55k per year. John lives in Florida and is a mediocre developer. Sure he gets work done but it's often late or buggy. He tries hard and has shown much improvement and continues to every day. His title is software developer. There's a new IT manager and his job is to hire in some top talent to work with the current talent to get things moving. Prior to the hiring push the new IT manager sees the salaries currently and decides to bring salaries more in sync with what the market currently is at. As a result of this Bob, between his cost of living increases and this new pay bump is at 65k and John is at 60k.
As he can now look at remote workers he has feelers out around the country. An ace developer applies for a position and has some skills the company desperately needs. She is based in New York and demands a higher salary than the company traditionally pays because the cost of living is higher. The company approves her demands at 90k per year and she starts with the company, also with the title of software developer. Her name is Sally.
A month later the company decides to have transparency across the board with salaries and publishes everyone's salary.
John is immediately offended because in his mind (and by his title) he's doing the same job as Bob and Sally yet is making considerably less. Bob is upset because Sally just got hired and is making an extremely high amount more.
Each of them are considering their titles / positions. None of them are considering the individual situations that have led to the people making what they make.
So how should salary negotiations go. If the company is open and transparent, they should explain to John that basically he's not as good as the other developers so therefore he hasn't gotten the same cost of living increases etc. What he has been getting is an education and the opportunity to improve his craft.
Bob would need to know that he started low and it's just the nature of salaries to creep up the way they have. They'd have to discuss Sally's situation which frankly is none of Bob's business.
While all of them are valued employees, if they all made the same exact amount either it wouldn't be enough or the company would go broke quick. So they can either suck it up and deal with it or find a job elsewhere. They'll be disgruntled either way.
Remember your salary is your salary. Negotiate for what you think is fair. If you want a raise, ask for one. if you feel you should be brought up to current market rates, say so. Ultimately if you are not being treated fairly after giving the company ample opportunity to make it right and communicating with them, then find a new position. Finding out someone has something that is worth more than what you have will always make you want what they have, that's just human nature. Not disclosing salaries is more to keep harmony amongst the workers and people happy in their jobs and focused on THEIR OWN needs as opposed to just trying to get the same thing as someone else for whatever reason.
Are there companies who leverage this for nefarious purposes? Sure but you really shouldn't be working for those companies now should you?
The key here is communicate with your company. If you are valued they will try to accommodate you or at least give you a good reason, if you are met with resistance or reprecussions then maybe reexamine your relationship with them.
I write about salary negotiation and coach people through it, and I think sharing salaries publicly will encourage more people to negotiate and get paid what they're worth.
I recently coached a new Amazon employee, and he got a very good offer, which he increased by about 15% using VERY simple negotiation tactics that we discussed. If he hadn't negotiated, he would've still been paid well, but would have left 15% on the table before he was even in the door.
I submitted this link yesterday—it's a Salary Negotiation workshop I did for developers in Orlando last week. It's definitely relevant to this conversation:
EDIT: Here's a direct link to the Salary Negotiation workshop summary to save you a click: http://bit.ly/21zFG5q
Here's the HN submission for posterity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11305683
(Not sure why I originally linked to an HN submission linking to the workshop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
Nice job starting this thread!
On the other hand, my work is not that stressful, and I'm still going to school so my job is very flexible on time.
Anyone else been in a position like me?
Another thing that could be interesting is your accent. My eyes were recently opened about the discrimination that happens based on that.
35k in stock options that would vest over 4 years.
That was March 10th, 2011.
Otherwise compensation is hard to compare.
I quit but my pay was ( Lin Seattle, numbers rounded a bit)
90k base 53k initial grant, backloaded 5% after 1 year, 15 after 2, 20% every 6 months after that. 37k signing bonus, 20k lump sum, 17k spread over 2nd year.
Raises were <1% at first review, 3.5% at second. So when I left after just over 2 years I was at 94k base. They did give me some more stock at my second review, but it was 2 years out iirc
