It is very strange to me that the government seems to be going for maximum shock and uncertainty on the US economy. Again, apart from the advisability of the actual tarrifs, they could have been implemented in the usual way to allow people to plan for them (and possibly give feedback on them), but they were not.
According to his own people he doesn't take no for an answer and isn't interested in input from anyone else. He has surrounded himself with opportunists and yes men. His own department heads often will do press conferences and inadvertently contradict Trump, seemingly without realizing it. At one point Trump and his staff couldn't get on the same page about IF they were or were not talking to China about tariffs, they waffled for several days on it.
A few Trump staffers whenever asked about strategy with tariffs or other things just ignore the question an start praising Trump out of the blue. It's a creepy scene.
I've yet to see anyone with an education or domain knowledge explain the existing tariffs strategy / where this should lead with these whipsaw type decisions. There simply is nobody with a clue willing to do that.
At least in Idocracy President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho chose to listen to someone smarter than him. This is very much not the choice of the current President.
Americans call this "separation of powers" for some quaint reason. In practice all three branches of government do what he says in executive orders.
It’s a power/money grab, nothing more, nothing less.
Trump has one ideology - trump first.
EU for example bulged for exactly this reason and accepted 15% one-way tariff for access to US market. Before the deal the uncertainty about the level of coming tariffs was deemed worse for European companies trading to US than the negotiated tariff itself.
European political leaders including the head of NATO have also practically turned to giving rimjobs to Trump's ass wishing he would not throw tantrums at them in important meetings: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c17wejpw79qo
Ultimately this all just strengthens US hegemony and makes other countries weaker, which is the explicitly stated goal he keeps repeating..
Just imagine the money you could make if you could induce such events on demand, with only you and your friends all being prepared for it!
Just a thought. Purely hypothetical. No one would do that. Surely.
It's only strange to you because you don't understand the purpose of government anymore. It's changed -- before, the government was supposed to protect and provide for the citizenry. Provide military defense, manage the economy for everyone's economic benefit, and part of that work was maintaining global order and stability.
That's not its purpose anymore. Now, the purpose of the government is to provide for Trump's security, to provide for Trump's stability, and to maintain a global order where his will rises above all others.
To that end, economic instability is a feature, not a bug. Trump loves it when the world is off kilter, because they perceive that in order to achieve stability, they must assuage him personally with gifts, bribes, and praise. Witness the Qatari jet bribe, Tim Cook's oval office visit where he gave a bribe, and the cabinet meeting yesterday which was 4 hours of everyone praising Trump rather than talking about the business of the country.
America is now a dictatorship, Trump is the dictator, and the country/economy will only be as stable as his ego allows. Which, after watching the guy for 10 years, means nothing will be stable again until he's gone for good.
Wow this administration is f**ing batshit insane. I thought the tariffs would be on raw metals, not anything at all that happens to contain them.
First of all, if you want to use tariffs to boost domestic manufacturing, you must also tax the steel/al content of finished (or intermediate) goods. Otherwise, you put your local producers at a disadvantage, making the tariffs worse.
If you only tariff raw materials, then an american manufacturer has to pay either US steel prices or imported steel + tariff to manufacture, but a company overseas can use the cheaper foreign steel.
So if you want to tax raw materials, then you also want to tax those goods where raw materials are an important part of the cost.
The US has a catalog called the "Harmonized Tariff Schedule" (HTS) which is a catalog of basically everything under the sun [0]. When the steel & AL tariffs were announced, they also published a list of all the HTS codes where the steel/al content would also be taxed.
Last week the US published a revised list of HTS codes to which these tariffs apply, and they added about 400 items to them. For example, the aluminum content of cans is now taxed when it wasn't before.
Flexport has a very cool (and useful!) tariff simulator where you can look up any item and it will tell you if the steel/al content will be subject to these tariffs: https://tariffs.flexport.com
Disadvantaging local producers is how tariffs work! Local producers would then turn to local suppliers who don't have any additional taxes applied. Tariffs are a very blunt instrument, and clumsily attempting to assuage 2nd order pain points will only give rise to 3rd (and higher) order effects.
The lesson here is: don't fuck around with multivariate dynamic systems that have achieved stability: there won't be any one knob you can twist to get a result you want on a single parameter. It'll be worse if you pick one knob and turn it all the way to 11.
It's a known flawless way to evolve code... Never revise, never delete, add enough so the tests pass.
But I don't think your lesson is reasonable. Fucking with multivariate dynamic systems is what governments do. And it's well settled that in the absence of the government doing that, everything goes to hell quite quickly.
But wow, are tariffs (and other micro taxes) disruptive on getting things done efficiently.
Domestic manufacturers are still disadvantaged by having to pay tariffs for materials used for the product, but not present in the final product. And foreign manufacturers still don't. If used in machines (and used up), used in mining (and used up), used in transport, used in energy production, ...
These costs are very large, especially because specific materials are often not available worldwide, or have large differences in quality due to availability of tiny amounts of additives for alloys or compounds. These things do lead to very large differences in quality, and thus in value. You can't model that as a government, it's just not going to happen.
There's no way to fully analyze an entire economic chain (especially when almost everyone involved has a financial incentive to sabotage you doing that correctly, and that includes foreign governments). You'd think this wouldn't have to be explained to either Americans or especially a supposed "defender of capitalism", but here we are.
Well, that depends on what you are getting done.
If your objective is solely to get a product done, the most efficient way is probably going to involve terrible salaries plus ample disregard for the environment and human life. Anything else is going to be disruptive to that end.
Because they didn't use the right specificity in the announcement (used an 8 digit HTS vs 10 digit), there was some confusion for a few weeks if Beer in glass bottles was subject to it as well.
There is now an FAQ on CBP's website clarifying it is not [^2]. And they've updated to the right specificity in the new lists.
> Is HTS 2203.00.0030, Beer made from malt, In containers each holding not over 4 liters, In glass containers; subject to Section 232 duties? > No.
But yes, effective 18 August, they broadened the list a whole lot more and added things from condensed milk to deodorant to both steel and aluminum lists. An absolute nightmare for FMCG supply chain to have to figure this out.
You can agree or disagree with the current administration's trade policy but hopefully, even the staunchest proponents will admit that the execution has been sub-par. With u-turns (sometimes leaving partner countries fuming because the final published tariffs were not what were negotiated[^3]), lack of clarity and changes that land on Friday night after work hours and go into effect on Monday midnight.
[^1]: https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-05884.pdf
[^2]: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summ...
[^3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/08/business/japan-tariffs-us...
Don't some tariffs motivate people to do processing offshore?
If I import 1kg of copper and machine/etch/whatever it down into products, with some wastage, maybe I should just do everything offshore and only import the final articles with 500g of copper in it.
At some point, higher tariffs on input materials will overtake the higher value of finished goods and you might as well just manufacture the whole thing offshore anyway.
The capricious implementation of the tariffs is another issue. Biden raised tariffs but the implementation involved a months long comment period, then a notice months in advance, and finally implementation. It wasn't ideal in my mind (the specific tariffs) but there was a way to work through the consequences and plan accordingly. This administration does not believe in that. Maybe congress would if they took back responsibility for tariff policy but I don't see that happening right now.
In fact this should be a sales tactic for fedex or whomever "we bullshit the numbers for ya!"
>For PCBs shipped to the EU, a Certificate of Analysis is not typically required for determining tariffs, as tariffs are based on the HS code (e.g., 8534.00 for bare PCBs), country of origin, and customs value. However, a CoA or similar documentation (e.g., material composition report) may be needed for: Regulatory compliance with REACH or RoHS, especially if the PCBs contain restricted substances like lead or cadmium. Customs verification if the product’s classification or materials are questioned.
https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=8534
...and has been that way for a long time. Only thing that might be different now is that the de-minimus import exemption is going away for (certain?) countries? (and of course the tariff rate changing).
They have no way to do this, because it's normally not done - tarrifs are paid by the importer, and responsibility for correct labeling is by the importer.
This is more a reversion to the mean/making them more equal. Which is a big deal.
We’ve been had and the number of people covering for this grows daily, and will continue to do so until one day we all wake the fuck up.
You are being governed by someone with dementia who has surrounded himself with people who appear unable to say 'no'.
The US just sort of randomly decided to tariff everything from people they don’t like anymore. Because of the randomness of these tariffs, they impact not only consumer goods but production equipment.
The justification for these tariffs is something along the lines of “let’s bring production back to the United States.” That’s likely a good idea (says the Canadian), but when they use that justification while simultaneously tariffing production equipment the same as consumer goods you have to wonder what’s actually going on.
With production equipment, you amortize the cost of that tool over the years of usage. These tariffs are not amortized, meaning they must be paid at import. That takes cash off the balance sheet, puts it into equipment and hits liquidity.
If I was wickedly powerful and really hated Americans, going after SMB liquidity would be the most convenient (and profitable) way to cause generational harm.
For example, the US has some of the largest lithium deposits in the world, but it's not being exploited because extraction is dirty and polluting, generally the compliance for opening a new mine is very complex (takes 7-10 years), and catching-up on refinery capacity will take an enormous investment (China does almost all Li refining now).
Similarly, developing the techniques to boost oil extraction (fracking, EOR...) took significant and sustained government support of different kinds until it became competitive, it's unclear if market pressure alone would have done it. This made the US again into the largest exporter rather than the largest importer of oil.
There are many such cases.
Note: I'm not from the US, and I'm not particularly pro-US, I'm not saying that tariffs are a good mechanism to support these industries, and I'm not necessarily in favour of such anti-environmental policies. But those are the facts as I understand them.
If the US has a ton of Lithium but finds it too expensive to extract, why not buy it now while it's cheap, wait for it to become rarer in other countries so more expensive, and only extract it once it's worth it (or close to worth it)?
It's important to get news from politically unbiased sources, because the reality is that US lithium sources are being stood up! Especially in that politically incorrect state of California which is supposedly a hellhole that would never approve something of the sort.
As for tariffs being a good way to support these industries citation needed! It's exactly the opposite type of policy for driving the investment that's needed. It's actually drastically collapsing all of the massive investment that was happening under Biden, in a complete disaster for the US. So I totally agree that you are not pro-US, but let's be honest about the disaster of tariffs.
Price I pay is not getting my $20 fairy lights that made my backyard look cute. The price foreign factory workers pay is that they’re out of a job. I don’t think Americans pay the most, but they do pay.
Edit: Clearly people are missing the point Im trying to make here. I’m trying to address the viewpoint that Americans will somehow lose the most, which i don’t think is the case. This isn’t a pro tariff argument. American consumer is the biggest market there is on the planet. Pretending we can just find other buyers is ludicrous. Yes, there will be some jobs affected domestically, but that number will be much higher elsewhere.
That tiny German company making lab equipment which happens to be absolutely essential for your company? Their shipments aren't getting through customs anymore, and dealing with the additional paperwork is way more than the two-and-a-half people in charge of shipping can handle on top of their regular duties. The US is only 5% of their market, so rather than drown in an attempt to serve the US they'll just suspend shipping until the US fixes itself, and serve the other 95% of the world instead.
Can't do your job without a replacement MacGuffin? Oh well, sucks to be you! Not our problem that your company is going to lose millions, take it up with your government.
That is all of your imports that are impacted by tariffs? Whatever it is that you are smoking is some good stuff.
The EU is the top trading partner for 80 countries. By comparison, the US is the top trading partner for a little over 20 countries. The EU is the world’s largest trader of manufactured goods and services.
The EU is making moves right now to position itself as the preeminent center of world trade.
Losing that position will hurt Americans more than anyone else.
It's reasons why this that I refuse to associate with Republicans in my daily life anymore. They are undeserving of respect or decency for how they continue to make our lives worse.
Here is the official link:
https://www.post.ch/en/about-us/media/press-releases/2025/us...
Pretty crazy if you ask me
That is not what the link says. It says that goods consignments are not accepted -- which is not at all the same thing as "does not ship to the US anymore". The link explicitly says that they're continuing to ship letters, will continue to ship goods via another service, and (I can only presume) will continue to accept personal packages, since those aren't affected at all by these tariff changes.
The discussion on this topic on HN is far more heat than light.
These people have lost all sense. The only remaining option is to make their party electorally impotent. Dominate through any available dirty trick. Redistricting. Impeachment. Ignoring judges. Endless executive orders. Shock and awe. Whatever they've done, return straight back to them. (Except the really grotesque parts like sending innocent people to a foreign torture prison.)
It seems that many people still haven't gotten the memo that we're not really living in a democracy anymore.
It's not the most productive but for all the pain their "opinions" create, the least I can do is make them feel the group believes their opinions to be ridiculous as the group all laughs.
I don't think they should get civility outside of the voters booth if they're uncivil within the booth.
I understand
I urge you to reconsider
The purpose of the policies are to create division that can then be exploited.
So fight them by building bridges and maintaining relationships
It is hard work, but it is the most effective way to fight these people who would sacrifice general peace and prosperity for the sake of their personal greed
The tl;dr of the current conundrum is that we have two corrupt political parties, and a system that's so rigged that it's nearly impossible to elect someone outside of them. Modern society's problems are complex to reason about and nearly intractable to solve. The people in power are not capable of even trying to reason about, let alone solve them.
I grew up in Nevada. Most of the people I grew up with are lowercase-L libertatian: they believe the government exists to arbitrate between the conflicting rights of individuals; that it should be as small as possible and let them do what they like unless they're harming someone else. Because of the aforementioned duopoly, these people tend to count as Republicans (in the style of Reagan). (This is true generally - the more geographically isolated a place is, the more it skews libertarian. The more urban, the more it skews liberal.)
The national Republican party was weak after Bush and got taken over by the Trump personality cult. The people I grew up with don't believe in instituting tariffs and arresting immigrants; yet if you force them to choose an R or D label, most of them are still going to count as R.
The world is a nuanced place. If you ignore that nuance and force everyone you're willing to converse with to pass your litmus test, you end up with two tribes ostriching themselves into bubbles of partisan-approved groupthink. That begets more yelling, less mutual understanding, and makes it even harder to solve problems. All of this empowers the extremists who control the major parties to continue making the world a worse place in service of their own power.
Yes, everything about politics sucks, and the people in charge are unfathomably awful. But if you refuse to share ideas with people you might disagree with, you're contributing to making that even more true.
It's like saying that both antarctica and oregon are 'cold'. Fucking stop already.
Maybe not "as a whole" but the majority of Republicans voted for this so at least those need to be written off. The rest have an opportunity to claim that they oppose the takeover by the personality cult. A great way to do it is to change their voter registration to anything else.
At this point, ever Republican has absolutely opted in to the current leader and platform.
this is to say they have a glowing endorsement of the trump agenda of authoritarian intervention in both social and economic issues. they could have stayed home, or voted for democrats who were pushing a more traditional conservative policy.
they also could have voted for local politicians who are against trump policies, but the local republicans are lockstep with trump too.
you need to reevaluate what the people in your community believe in. they mught say theyre libertarians, but their actions say theyre very favourable to criminal dictators. if they werent, they would have acted dofferently in elections, and the votes speak louder than words
All those traditional conservatives and "lowercase-L libertatians" could speak up now, and do something about the ongoing fascist takeover, but they are not. American democracy is probably doomed, we will find out in 2026 whether we can have fair mid-term elections.
Obama pointed straight at call-out culture as a losing strategy 5 years ago; NYT article: https://archive.is/Di4uG . The Democrats need to start divorcing themselves from "allies" like the parent poster immediately and loudly if they want to build a voter coalition strong enough to win the midterms.
Zohran Mamdani is doing so well for a reason: a decent part of the voter base is getting increasingly fed up by the center-right politics the Democrats have been selling. Young left-wing voters really don't like the fossils currently leading the Democratic party. If the Democrats don't start selling something better than "we aren't the Republicans", they are at risk of losing yet another generation to the next right-wing populist who claims he's going to "drain the swamp".
So no, call-out culture isn't the problem: the complete lack of left-wing values is.
It's worked really well for the Republicans for decades. The Democrats just need to try harder.
Obama was wrong. Look at your own article, which quotes Tulsi Gabbard gushing about the need for a little more of that 'aloha spirit', and compare it with her actual behavior now that she's Director of National Intelligence in the current administration.
https://users.wfu.edu/zulick/454/gopac.html <- a 1995 strategy document from former GOP speaker Newt Gingrich's GOPAC.
Democrats were nice and polite, always letting themselves be guilted into treating Republicans nicely. It was loosing strategy.
voters have essentially zero influence over policy and overwhelmingly vote on "vibes". also most people don't care about policy at any level of detail until it directly affects them. is this good? no. true nonetheless. much of why i'm not much of a fan of democracy and i think it's a sham.
i don't think contributing to increased polarization, especially at the level of your neighbors, is something to be proud of.
The Repub model is being replicated globally too. It just works.
The "vibes" that attract conservative voters are fucking disgusting.
the dems gave up fighting against it, but its still a republican idea to wreck the manufacturing base and put the publicans into unemployment
Maybe you realize that neither do something for the working class but the big corporations and billionaires.
The ones who try are labeled socialists.
- new regulation changing trade in a way that companies are struggling to follow
is child's play compared to
- a memo from a think-tank suggesting a particular choice of words
?
you want to pay more in taxes for everything because you dont like the high standards democrats have for themselves?
some democrats also want to raise taxes? why not support them if you eant to raise taxes?
And also, letting new batshit insane things slide is just complying in advance. If we're ever going to get back to a sane society (a big "if"), we can't accept the insanity until then, or it'll stick.
No, it is not insane. This creates perfect "everyone violates the law, we can selectively enforce it" scenario. That's how 10% Intel-like condition can be created for other companies.
("History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes," attributed to Twain)
Plaintiffs plainly lack standing when they fail to provide evidence that the statutory provision has ever been enforced against them or regularly enforced against others.
So if you think the law is bullshit the judge can just say you probably won't be prosecuted so you have no imminent fear of prosecution and you can't challenge it.
So if a single prosecution (including your own) under the relevant section occurred at any time in the decade prior, that's likely enough to argue standing to challenge that section, provided the other tests of standing are met.
There is no logic to it, it’s make believe for the narrative machine.
You're allowed to say "fucking".
It's been ten years.
"Tarrifs" are paid by the importer.
These are being charged to the exporter
These are not tarries. But novel arbitrary taxes
Batshit crazy does not come close
Ultimately, that's always the case.
But just like VAT or sales taxes are usually paid by the seller on behalf of the buyer, so could customs duties be levied by the exporter.
I would not limit it to "this administration". Bureacracy tends to fuck thing up royally regardless of which imbecile they're currently serving.
bureaucracy tends to make processes that are complicated but still straightforward to complete, even if they take decades for skmethjng that shiuld only be a couple minutes
Is certificate of analysis anything more than a pdf made with word with your signature on it?
> U.S. customs is demanding a Certificate of Analysis (which could cost thousands of dollars and to determine what exact amount of Aluminum, Copper and Steel are in the product), otherwise they assume the entire PCB consists of copper, aluminum, and steel, and charge a 100% tariff on the whole product. This is a prime example of unnecessary complexity in international trade.
Also why would they go through all that trouble? Easier to not sell there anymore.
I don't agree with it, but isn't that ostensibly the end goal? That is, to force/encourage the manufacturing of goods in the US, rather than importing them. Of course, the metal itself still needs to enter the US either way.
This seems like it could also lead to absurd situations. If a device contained both, would customs pretend it was simultaneously 100% made out of copper and 100% made out of steel and apply both tariffs?
Losing a significant proportion of their revenue can easily bring down plenty of businesses.
Olimex sells kits, kits made by others.
They don't know how much copper is in the MPS430F5438 because Texas Instruments made the MPS430F5438.
It's also fair for a company to say 'f- that, even just doing that eats away at our bottom line, we'll concentrate on more profitable markets' (which is the intention I guess. Go and build it in USA,USA,USA).
The problem isn't creating a reasonable estimate, anyone can do that. Most cheap consumer PCBs are going to be 2-layer FR4 with 1oz/sq. ft. of copper, minus some etched away, with negligible copper in parts like chips. That indeed should get you fairly close.
But there are also 32-layer PCBs, and even PCBs with a solid copper core. And your PCB could be filled with copper inductors! Similarly, it could also be a solid aluminum-core PCB. If I were a malicious customs officer, I would insist that the only valid upper bound is a 100% copper PCB, which is also 100% aluminum, and 100% whatever else. Don't want to pay that? No problem, just provide a certified lab analysis report!
Simple things rapidly get complicated when the goal is to frustrate the process as much as possible. You don't live in a modern economy focused on global trade anymore, you are now living in a Kafka book.
There's your problem. It enables selective enforcement, because the authorities can decide at any time "if you're off by 0.1% we'll consider you in violation".
Your only option now is to use FedEx or UPS which cost a significant amount more.
[1] https://www.post.ch/en/about-us/media/press-releases/2025/us...
What do you use to ship money overseas then?
[1] https://www.nrk.no/urix/posten-stopper-sendinger-til-usa-1.1...
(For government agents: The above is a "joke", you surely have been introduced to this concept before they gave you the government brain chip, if not, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke)
I ordered a lock and some keys valued at about $400, and paid an extra $400 in duties because of this. It's insane.
There is a lot more direct consumer ordering from international vendors now than there was 20 years ago of course, for obvious reasons.
Note Aug 29th is also the end of the "de minimus" rules for import duties, where a shipment worth less than $800 was exempt from import taxes and duties. Some tariffs and other import taxes have always existed, but that's why you rarely saw them when ordering consumer goods internationally to the USA, if it was worth less than $800 they were skipped. That's going away, you'll be paying import taxes on every international shipment you order directly as a consumer, even if it's a $25 t-shirt -- exactly how you pay these, at what point they are calculated by who (even how to calculate them?), and who invoices you how and when as a consumer -- well that's what nobody including international shippers have figured out yet, which is what the OP is saying means they can't really ship internationally to consumers in the USA for the time being. it's gonna be a clusterfuck.
Turns out maybe there's a reason there aren't usually major changes to whole structure of import taxes made with only months notice, and tweaks and changes to them still being made only weeks/days before implementation, with no real implementation guidance provided?
Historically I buy a lot of high-end goods from the US on an annual basis, but after this incident I'll be actively avoiding doing so and the surprises that entails, until things get sane again.
In the latter two cases, it’s up to the domestic supply chain to decide how and and how much of those costs get passed on to consumers.
1: You don't add up and pay the tax board every month right? In fact this is the central theme to successfully collecting taxes, never collect them directly from the public if possable. That is a hard thankless task. It is much easier to steal them from the much more easily policed companies, before the public sees the money in the form of income tax or when they buy in the form of a sales tax. As a specific example remember the "use" tax, you were supposed to do just that, add up and pay the sales tax for things you bought out of your sales tax jurisdiction, this proved impossible to collect so with the massive increase in sales out of the tax jurisdiction(cough, amazon, cough) the courts ordered that each company had to now keep track of and pay the sales tax for every infernal piddling little sales tax area, a huge hassle for them, but that's not the states problem and it is much easier to enforce than having each person do it.
So yes, I will pay for my country's tariffs and you will pay for yours.
It's a bad scenario where things are more expensive and both manufacturers and customers get harmed. The only ones winning are, as always, intermediaries.
I'll repeat this for those in the back:
TARIFFS ARE PAID BY THE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTRY DOING THE TARIFFS.
TARRIFFS ARE NOT PAID BY OTHER COUNTRIES.
This is excessive and illegal taxation without representation. Congratulations, party of low taxes, you now have socialist-like taxes without any of the socialist benefits.
The Trump tariffs are the biggest tax increase in the lower and middle classes ever.
Do I understand this correctly that if I have a 1kg product that costs $1000... the US is trying to charge me a $1000 tariff on at most $10 [1] worth of metal?
[1] Copper is the most expensive of those metals at roughly $10/kg
In a country where people were ready to riot when service was slow at Chili's in the summer of '20, policy aimed at reducing restaurant employment seems risky.
Funny that this time this started from the right side of the political spectrum.
Authoritarianism is the common denominator; only the details vary.
No, fascist consolidation of state and businesses has little to do with communism and "seizing the means of production".
I friggin love that podcast, and keep recommending it to friends. The only problem I have with it is that I like to listen to it while driving, but I can't stop to take notes every five minutes.
Makes perfect sense to make ordinary Americans pay tariff/taxes on imports in return. Sucks to be them.
Not just manufacturers but retailers/distributors too.
Want to be a small time importer/retailer and do international sales online? Good luck!
This is something this manufacturer should already be doing, otherwise it’s unclear how they’re complying with RoHS or REACH.
> U.S. customs is demanding a Certificate of Analysis (which could cost thousands of dollars and to determine what exact amount of Aluminum, Copper and Steel are in the product), otherwise they assume the entire PCB consists of copper, aluminum, and steel, and charge a 100% tariff on the whole product.
And
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCBP/bulletins/...
And you use the ACE system to set everything up and report origins of melting, etc and it computes the fees for you:
protectionists tariffs are an interesting gun with which to shoot one’s own foot off. Good for China though. They get to take over as the central trading entity, and they didn’t have to do anything! We shot our own foot off.
Both stable and genius
Sometimes it doesn't make any difference because it's the same action.
How can you get more stable than that?
Dimensions: 85 mm x 56 mm
Area: 4760 mm^2 or 7.38 in^2
Copper: 4 x 1oz layers
Copper Weight: 0.205 oz = 0.013lb
Copper price: 0.013 * $4.50/lb = $0.0585
And that doesn't include the copper removed by etching. So if they paid a 6c tariff on each raspberry pi board, they'd be overpaying.
Can they generate a certificate claiming each board contains no more than this amount of copper, overpay the tariff by a few pennies, and carry on?
Governments ask for something like a metal spectrometer analysis of components. They might even say each batch needs to be analyzed and we trust analysis from spectrometers manufactured and/or operated in US. Each condition raising the price for certificate/analysis even more.
Or directly from the post
> U.S. customs is demanding a Certificate of Analysis (which could cost thousands of dollars and to determine what exact amount of Aluminum, Copper and Steel are in the product), otherwise they assume the entire PCB consists of copper, aluminum, and steel, and charge a 100% tariff on the whole product.
In later comments on their blog they admitted they didn't even file the paperwork and left it up to the customer, who obviously wouldn't know how, causing the part to get stuck in customs.
It's a frustrating situation for them but there's no way CBP is making people break out lab equipment to import a PCB.
Now prove that your math is correct. Can you hand over paperwork proving that it is indeed a 4-layer PCB and not a 32-layer one? Can you prove the 1oz copper isn't secretly 2oz? Can you prove it isn't a copper-core PCB? For all we know that PCB is a 1.6mm-thick solid chunk of copper!
And what about all the parts on it? Do the manufacturers of all the components on top of that PCB provide an exact per-element writeup? How many grams of copper are in that power inductor, or the ethernet jack's magnetics?
We're still not entirely convinced your paperwork checks out. Could you please have a testing lab run it through a mass spectrometer, just to remove any doubt?
Yes, we know it's a $1.50 board. No, we don't care. Yes, you really have to do it again for the next one-off shipment - you didn't go through the proper year-long type approval process, after all.
I suspect this is more about politics than it is about international trade. If you've ever done imports you know that there's a substantial amount of paperwork and compliance, demanding that products state their composition doesn't seem extraordinary at all. Maybe OP should try consulting what regulations food exporters must follow.
Is this a situation where if you abide by the letter of the law without tech it doesn’t work, where if you use software and/or route through nations that already have no tariff deals with US you get your items through?
I just bought (last week) an EEG kit from Europe to US for personal sleep studies. It has similar metals that you indicate. There was no issue in my shipper getting it through. There was no tariff added. There was no certificate of analysis.
> Mouser and Digikey have the same issues, but have professional import customs brokers and do these import procedures and handle all these charges by themselves. The average small US customer have no clue how to do import, they wait someone to deliver their parcel to their door. Which now do not happens, and after several weeks of this parcel hanging at US customs they ask the seller “where is my parcel? I ordered this way many times and every time the parcel arrived to my door” meantime they have to pay import taxes, storage fees etc etc and they simple refuse the parcel and return it back. This is why DHL and UPS refuse to take parcels to USA now until they figure out how to calculate these import tariffs correctly so they can be pre-paid in advance i.e. the US customer knows what he have to pay $$$ tariffs in advance and all these returns stop.
I seriously wonder if Digikey lost money on that order, shipping alone must have cost 20-30€, and on top come all the antistatic bags, handling costs, payment costs.
Digi-key never offerred free shipping for US customers and now we will have to pay these high tariffs too.
Combine that with a stupidly efficient order picking process, and I wouldn't be surprised if they basically break even on small orders.
You've got to remember that those small one-off orders are almost always for industrial prototyping. You don't need to make a lot of money selling 5 units for a hand-assembled prototype when you know you will be selling them 500 units for the initial automated run, or even 50.000 units for the final production run.
Additionally, there's a lot of value in being a one-stop-shop: they might not make a lot of money on small-quantity low-volume items, but if an engineer can purchase their entire BOM from you at once, she is unlikely to go looking for a competitor to save a few bucks on the higher-margin items.
Or...they have a warehouse in Germany?
all these single-piece mini packages
Automated pick-and-package.
Boats. They're still dealing with tariffs, but it's a lot easier to declare an entire container than individual airmail packets.
But having a US presence that can then receive the containers and ship domestically, is kindof reserved for the big boys.
Sure, paying on the order of the goods value in shipping isn't cheap, but that's niche imports for you. Now, paying 5x? That's no longer reasonably.
It will be interesting to see if they also apply more customs scrutiny to checked luggage for air travel when returning to the United States. Right now they are not. But, if you go to places like Costa Rica, which has had high tariffs on many imports for years, they make you scan all of your luggage when you enter the country and will stop and scrutinize what you are bringing in. CR will also periodically have raids on retailers who obtained goods that circumvented customers via things like clandestine border crossings.
There will be some secondary challenges with enforcement of this as some decide to roll the dice, import illegally and hope to not get caught. If there is enough of a price difference between buying something with a high tariff in the US vs locally I can also see some people travelling to Mexico or Canada to buy some higher dollar smaller items if the cost savings offsets the trip.
It’s really frustrating if you need to ship stuff around as an individual.
If companies didn't leave the userbase of the EU over their (arguably) restrictive fines and regulations, no way they'll let some tarriffs interrupt their business opportunities.
Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45016517 - Aug 2025 (351 comments)
Australia Post halts transit shipping to US as 'chaotic' tariff deadline looms - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44970269 - Aug 2025 (173 comments)
The problem now is that nobody - including retailers and shipping companies - really knows how returns will be handled if the drives need servicing under warranty. The transport companies here are saying everything has to be declared down to the molecular level, and no matter what it is - even a return - tariffs and broker fees still have to be paid.
So it looks like I’ll have to halt importing from the US anything that comes with a warranty. The funny thing is, with all the crazy taxation the EU already has, US tariffs make importing from the EU actually cheaper once you factor in potential returns.
Granted, I live in a tiny country, and for the US economy this is probably just a drop in the bucket. But I can’t help wondering how much unforeseen collateral damage this will cause - it has to add up.
Tariffs.flexport.com
It’s free even for non Flexport customers.
Just as the real effect of a vaccine ban will be to damage US health, and the real effect of dismantling government funded R&D will be to damage US education and competitiveness.
I have no doubt some people believe patriotism is involved, and some large companies will get exemptions.
But I also have no doubt these decisions aren't being made for the long-term benefit of the US as a whole. Or even most of it. Or even those parts of it which are currently exempt.
This is Brexit++, sponsored by the same people, with similar - but much worse - lasting effects.
American own Cultural Revolution.
Then why are they being made? That is the real question that in my opinion is not being discussed enough. A lot of reacting to what's happening in the US, but not enough pondering about what the real goals are here.
I have my own views about this, which I used to think were somewhat conspiratorial and hyperbolic, but no more.
The mega-wealthy individuals will not suffer from any economic downturn, so it doesn't matter if their policies harm the economy.
I'm pretty sure that if the curtains are pulled to the side, the people who are behind these policies are not seeking wealth and power. They are instead religious zealots seeking transformation.
https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summ...
>At this time, CBP does not require an aluminum certificate of analysis to be filed at the time of entry.
This does not read as a demand.
"Suspensions including from Australia and Europe come after Donald Trump removed a rule exempting parcels worth less than US$800 from his tariffs."
(For some reason this isn't showing the full article to me in Firefox with uBlock Origin. There's more info here that works with that setup - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/aug/25/postal-serv...).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_comp...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Prison_Industries
There must be some other reason Temu is able to sell goods at lower prices, especially now that China is not a particularly low-wage country.
(FWIW I assume this was a language barrier issue leading to a misunderstanding, perhaps with a customer service rep that didn't review my past messages. I don't think DeepComputing intended to trick me.)
In theory, importers have been required to provide a Certificate of Analysis (COA) since around 2003. This comes from federal TSCA regulations as well as California’s RoHS requirements (bill SB 20).
But in practice, nobody really followed those rules because they could claim the “de minimis” import exemption.
The problem now is that Trump issued Executive Order 14324, “Suspending Duty-Free De Minimis Treatment for All Countries.” This means that shipments valued at $800 or less from any country are no longer eligible for de minimis treatment. So in order to properly calculate taxes you need CoA.
Most border towns have shops that will receive and hold orders for pickup for a small fee.
I wonder if this will reverse where Americans send to their Canadian friend to pickup.
Canadian retail has been pretty dumb/expensive. Much Cheaper to buy from US for auto parts than buy local, even though virtually none is made in USA. I wonder if tariffs will eliminate that price advantage.
I got bit by this one - ordered a few days ago, thinking there might not be much time left - guess I was more right than I realized. (they're offering refunds but I'll probably let them keep the money - not like it's their fault)
Pay me 20$ i will tell you the upper limit and then bobs your uncle, you can change your customers the added cost.
Temporary suspension of acceptance of mail to the United States (Japan Post)
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45020661
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44970269
There's an announcement today on the PiHut WWW site, for example.
* https://thepihut.com/pages/delivery
Just a random Bing search turns up loads of these from the past week.
* https://crooked-dice.co.uk/blogs/news/temporary-suspension-o...
* https://www.elgrecominiatures.co.uk/pages/temp-suspension-us...
* https://coscraft.co.uk/blogs/three-nerds-in-a-shed/tariffs-o...
and so on. I suspect that dang and tomhow might have to apply the "It's in the mainstream news and we have umpteen dupes." rule soon. (-:
But drop-shipping into the U.S. has been absurdly one-sided for years. Americans have been subsidizing it through taxes and mailing rates our own government negotiated, and that basically fucked over American small businesses for decades.
It’s been dramatically cheaper to ship items from Shenzhen to Anytown, USA than to mail something across town. That killed domestic mail-order growth and flooded us with mountains of plastic Temu junk instead.
It's obvious that it should be more expensive to ship from China to the US than from the US to the US. It no longer makes sense to subsidize these rates and the entire system needs to be rethought.
For them, "success" involves feeling that a particular social arrangement has been solidified. It involves an exploitative hierarchy (which they believe is both inevitable and required) where they aren't obviously on the bottom and where "the right people" are on top.
They simply do not care how much it costs to raid people's attics looking for Anne Franco, or even the odds of finding her family, as long as The Authority is taking Firm Steps and people like Anne Franco are afraid.
We have laws on the books and they have to be enforced equally, whether you're shipping in entire containers or thousands of small direct mail packages.
De minimis had nothing to do with draining out manufacturing; that's been happening for decades. Before 1993 the rate was $10.
And who cares about the "base that built America"? US unemployment was low! The US doesn't need these terrible jobs or look to the past for opportunity. There is plenty of opportunity available by looking forward.
Flipping this around: this is a limit on the rights of American citizens to purchase things from around the world. My argument is it's best for policy to center the rights of American citizens vs trying to curtail the rights of people who do not even live here.
The irony is this comes from the conservative movement, who are purportedly neoliberal economists.. but then completely disregard a central plank of neoliberal theory.
consistency is low on the MAGA priority list
Again, I'm not a Trump voter and I think this is the clumsiest, most dangerous way to bring manufacturing back to the US, but that's my understanding of what their goal is. I'm not even going to touch the Christian nationalist side of the plan.
For example, the split between:
1. The willfully-culpable Republican party.
2. The inept/uninspiring Democratic party.
3. The lazy/clueless non-voters.
I'm not sure how to solve that problem... maybe arguing over prioritization is necessary.
________
P.S.: For something more-actionable, how about this: Many problems exist, individual humans aren't built to consider them all simultaneously and coequally, be kind to well-meaning allies that are focusing on a particular piece.
Being a US citizen used to be a perk, not a liability.
What about the aluminized foil-sealed bottles for pills, powders, etc.?
Is there even a dog?
Stuff like flea medication and rabies vaccine comes to mind.
It’s on the whole product not just micrograms of aluminum, which could break the bank based on how much you order.
I think if the shipper can't determine the amount of copper in their products, then neither can customs.
From TFA: "U.S. customs is demanding a Certificate of Analysis (which could cost thousands of dollars and to determine what exact amount of Aluminum, Copper and Steel are in the product), otherwise they assume the entire PCB consists of copper, aluminum, and steel, and charge a 100% tariff on the whole product. "
They WANT you to pay the full 100% in taxes.
> U.S. customs is demanding a Certificate of Analysis (which could cost thousands of dollars and to determine what exact amount of Aluminum, Copper and Steel are in the product), otherwise they assume the entire PCB consists of copper, aluminum, and steel, and charge a 100% tariff on the whole product
Customs doesn't have to. They can simply decide you haven't followed the rules, and it'll be up to you to prove you haven't or face paying fines/losing a shipment/possible prosecution. And they can decide the playing field: can you be wrong by 10% on that copper estimate? 1%? 0.001%? Good luck.
