After they hit a supply line issue earlier this year, I decided to try getting a Framework instead.
Been using my Framework laptop for a month or so now consistently for heavy programming work, and it is the best machine I've ever had. Thank you! It also was the catalyst to get me into using Linux (Ubuntu) which has been a huge blessing beyond what I expected.
I posted a photo of myself at a coffee shop to a Discord group, and someone saw the corner of the laptop. They asked "Is that a Macbook I see?" and I explained to them "Nah it's a Framework" and shared the link. Didn't really expect much beyond that, but actually they loved it. Several people looked at it and said "Wow! This sounds amazing! Actually... going to save this for later..."
I've been considering a framework as a replacement actually!
One of the things I really care about is battery life + sleep performance.
The article mentions:
> .* At the same time, the Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition is our most power efficient product yet with optimizations from Google and Intel that allow for long-lasting battery life.
Can you provide some numbers around the battery life improvements? Sounds exciting! (And are these going to be backported to the normal 12th gen boards, or is it a feature of the unique mainboard/not firmware?)
Can you speak to the OS image as well? Is there any non-upstream drivers that are relied on? I notice lots of chromebooks have drivers that aren't in the regular upstream kernel, but just in the chromiumos source. I'm hoping that I could eventually swap OS' if needed w/o getting a new mainboard, and want to see how viable that is.
Thanks for the hard work, and in advance for the questions!
(P.S. like everyone else, AMD would be exciting if you don't know that :p)
[edit] one of my biggest disappointments in my slate is that it never received vm-in-vm support with the newer kernel. Is /dev/kvm available in the linux container? I _think_ that goes hand in hand with the steam supuport, but not sure
We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life.
Is there a sense that there is an untapped 'premium' chromebook audience or will this make sense even without that. Perhaps you're looking for large/discounted partnerships with educational organizations?
They're a niche market: C-level executives at companies that use Chromebooks, developers at those companies, Linux fans who will mostly use the Chromebook to run Linux apps. They make more economic sense as an adaptation of a laptop that is already being sold for other markets rather than as a dedicated product.
The Pixelbook line never did enough volume for Google to make money on it. It was a proof of concept, a way of showing that a Chromebook didn't have to just mean a low end and cheaply built Acer or the like, but could be something that higher end users would happily use and not be ashamed to be seen with when they do a presentation. Now that other companies are making premium Chromebooks, there is no longer a need for Google to produce them.
While cheap Chromebooks abound, the market for Chromebooks has matured significantly and a lot of vendors offer high quality 'premium' solutions that really meet people's needs, while typically costing less than say Apple's offerings. Framework is jumping on that bandwagon.
I noticed the 256GB of storage is different from the DIY options. I'm guessing this is driven by hardware support limitations for ChromeOS. I'm wondering if the same is true with the RAM.
The FAQ also says you can add memory and storage later, but I noticed the FAQ mentions "We recommend using modules from Google’s Chromebook compatibility lists, which can be viewed in our Knowledge Base, and are available for purchase on the Framework Marketplace." I didn't find that compatibility list anywhere in the Knowledge Base, but I did find this post (https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-framework-lap...) which seems to suggest you can upgrade to 64GB of RAM and 1TB of NVMe storage, though it's not clear if that's using parts that are on Google's compatibility list or not. Can you provide any clarity on this?
On the storage, we use Western Digital SN730 and SN740 drives, which are also what we put in the pre-built Framework Laptops. These are roughly equivalent to the SN750 and SN770 retail drives, respectively.
On the memory and storage, ChromeOS technically has an allow-list for memory and storage, though in practice we have seen modules not on the list work fine. We'll be adding that list onto the Knowledge Base. We will be making parts that are on the list available in the Framework Marketplace for guaranteed compatibility (the memory we already have, and we'll be introducing SN730/SN740 storage up to 1TB).
- What kind of commitments did each party make to each other?
- Did Google request anything of Framework? What requests did Framework agree to? Which did they deny?
- What differentiates this product from the normal offering?
2. Does this come with the silly Chromebook keyboard that is missing two keys on the left side? If it does, is it compatible with the normal keyboard part?
3. When will you bring a motherboard with an AMD APU?
1. Could I swap mainboards to upgrade the 11th gen framework to the chromebook version? 2. Is the coreboot chip flashable with custom firmware? / Is the boot process locked?
This might well be the mainboard I've been waiting for. Congratulations on shipping this!
When switched into developer mode, it should be possible to update and customize firmware. There is a pretty active community for Chromebook firmware customization out there.
I'd also love to learn more about the motivation to create this laptop and the target audiences!
Edit: the article says “receives automatic updates for up to eight years” but an upper bound isn’t so helpful here.
Besides, now is a terrible time to start offering AMD laptops. You want them to drop a 6000-series laptop when the next-gen mobile Ryzen chips were announced less than a month ago? Have some patience!
> we’ve partnered with ChromeOS because of their commitment to long-lasting speed and transparency. The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition is built with the Titan C security chip and receives automatic updates for up to eight years, all to keep your Chromebook fast and secure.
There are some other smaller differences. To keep the cost down, the top cover is aluminum-formed instead of CNCed, for compatibility reasons we weren't able to bring our fingerprint module in, and we were able to improve both audio quality and speaker loudness with an improved audio CODEC and louder transducers.
Is there any roadmap for wider distribution in Europe? Especially eastern part.
Do you honestly believe Google respects people?
What measures have you put in place to mitigate Google's surveillance of its users?
The ChromeOS doc page "Set Up Linux on your Chromebook" [0] links to a supported models list [1] which does NOT include Framework.
[0] https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en
[1] https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chro...
source: https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-framework-lap...
Maybe the support sites will get updated to include Frame.Work
When you don't care about single-core performance and compatibility, there really isn't much reason to use x86 at all. For me personally, my priority is by far battery-life (and LTE support is a nice bonus).
I'm refraining from using Framework until they get an ARM device out to replace my current ARM chromebook (Acer Chromebook Spin 513, my NixOS configuration: https://github.com/L-as/NixOS-lazor)
I would imagine that regular Linux won't do as well as ChromeOS in terms of battery life, but perhaps still considerably better than the Windows mainboard+firmware.
What is the battery life when running Chrome OS?
If I wanted to, could I later put a full Linux or Windows in some sort of dual boot?
I work in metal fabrication (tradesperson) and run a laser cutter as my full time job, and have an interest in most things metallurgical.
Are you able to talk about the 50% post-consumer recycled aluminium. What were the pros / cons of 50% rather than higher or lower percentages.
How did you see the niche and do you still see it the same way now it is here?
What do you consider to be the value proposition for potential customers of this product?
What is your assessment of the TAM?
Do you have limits on how many differentiated products you are willing to pursue simultaneously in the market?
I've grown to rely on Windows Hello / Mac FaceID. It's disappointing not to have a bio metric option.
Keeping it as a Chromebook with ChromeOS, there are specific firmwares required for the Touchpad and Webcam that required us to create variants. The Fingerprint Module we have is also not compatible with ChromeOS.
I understand if you can't make promises here, I'm also on a product team :)
1. do you have any plans to provide expansion cards for ltr/5g connectivity?
2. do you have any plans to provide more memory for chromebook edition?
For folks wondering "who's the market in this?", the Linux container support in ChromeOS is awesome - my Pixelbook was actually a great dev laptop (I ran postgres, VSCode, Node, etc on it), just with age it's lack of upgrades is starting to show. So for me, on the "ChromeOS side", for me it's a benefit that it's basically just browser and android apps, and then on the Linux side I have everything I need for development.
Google definitely has not lost interest. The Chromebook team at Google is actually involved in almost (all?) Chromebooks made. Since Google is responsible for all firmware/software updates for the life of that Chromebook, they are involved in that way. As well, the hardware/firmware teams here do a lot of the core engineering to getting the core parts of the hardware working (motherboard/cpu at a minimum). And all BSP's end up living in the ChromeOS source tree I believe: https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/external-bsp-hosting/
If you are looking for a spiritual successor to the Pixelbook, I'd check out the HP Elite Dragonfly: https://9to5google.com/2022/09/15/hp-elite-dragonfly-chromeb...
As the sibling commenter mentioned, though, Google did just shut down their Pixelbook division, which is what I was referring to. And as a corollary, if you can forward this to anyone that matters, Google's product marketing is the absolute worst. And I say this as a big fan of Google's developer-focused products. Case in point, I'm a giant Pixelbook fan. If Google is shutting down Pixelbook development, why can't Google just put something on their store to point to alternatives, like you have?
As another example, I am heavily invested in GCP, and I'm a big Firebase fan. Yet I can hardly think of any other company that sells to enterprises that is so loath to even show a hint of what's on their roadmap. I get it, priorities can change, and you don't want to put something out there that is (incorrectly) taken as a promise. But tons of other companies have to deal with this problem, and with Google it's almost impossible to get any status about important bug fixes or feature requests.
I have a Pixelbook that still gets ChromeOS updates regularly- the Android and "Linux on ChromeOS" features are still half baked. After wakeup - Android apps hang or show empty windows, Terminal takes minutes to work, and a reboot usually fixes everything. (This is after a powerwash and being on the stable channel)
I love Linux and I would consider myself a power user (understanding HW arch, working with kernel sources).
Basic Chromebook apps (+ Play Store) are something that "just work" for 80% of time for my use-cases (which is, browser and ssh-ing into a power machine in ze cloud/DC). I also have rather good understanding of threat models here, and the quality of the sandboxes and HW roots-of-trust, hardening and software isolation on a typical Chromebook, so it gives me a relative piece of mind for specific use-cases (personal/family files etc.). Supporting an extended family, if they can get used to Chromebooks (it covers 99% of their needs, esp. that Android apps can be installed here) is a bliss.
Customizing Linux is mental fun, but on a road you probably something that just works, and typical Linux is rough at edges - GFX support, hibernation, esp. if you don't want to stick to some LTS distro, b/c you always need this newer package for dev purposes or tinkering.
The remaining 15% is covered by a VM, which seems really nicely integrated (X11 proxy etc). The remaining remaining 5% cannot be covered - custom kernels, custom USB drivers, occasional need to use Windows, but that's fine, I can do that on a desktop or on some random, cheap, low-power laptop.
In essence, it's just a thin client on steroids, which almost always works in its basic form. But if you want something more interesting, there's always a VM with some Linux distro, or Android apps via the Play Store. But these are optional and don't affect stability of the core system, if you don't use them.
Biased but informed opinion: I own a Framework Laptop running Ubuntu 22.04.
Linux on a server or a desktop isn't so bad. Linux on a laptop is awful. Hibernation isn't supported. Battery life is mediocre, and battery drain in sleep is significant. If I close the lid on my Framework at 75% and come back the next day, it will be at 25%. If I come back in 3 days, it will be completely dead. Even on a device designed to support Linux (Framework, Thinkpad, whatever) the Bluetooth experience is....err......well, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything?
ChromeOS isn't perfect, but as a laptop I'd much rather run it (with Crostini to get a Linux development environment) any day.
For web browser-based stuff, I have a constantly-updated state of the art browser with full vendor-backed hardware support for everything around graphics, sound, USB, Bluetooth, etc, anything else I might want, plus probably the best sandboxing you can get as far as protecting the core system from any malicious web exploits. It also works rather well in tablet mode with convertible devices. IME, getting all of this on bare-metal Linux and having it stay working for years is very hit-or-miss.
For linuxy CLI stuff, I have a built-in Linux container with a nice terminal. Everything I've wanted to do as far as CLI stuff works great, including Vim + Tmux, developing and compiling in any language, systemd services, docker and k8s CLI support. I've opened at least a dozen or so PRs on various open-source projects and maintained server clusters working entirely on a Chromebook. All the driver and display stuff is taken care of by ChromeOS so I never have to mess with config for it.
ChromeOS has a great separation of concerns and isolation of environments. I have my work profile and my personal profile, which are totally separate. I have my browser environment and my dev VM, which are totally separate. Different activities are cleanly partitioned.
This has obvious security benefits but also is just a really nice, simple way to manage the system. I can fuck up a dev VM without impacting anything else, I can click random links on my personal profile without impacting work, etc.
It also just does what I want it to do. I browse the internet, I program. It's good for those things. So... why Linux?
don't they already support this on the existing framework?
I have not seen a remotely significant difference between ChromeOS and Linux (with Chrome Installed) for the vast majority of users.
It is true that Linux on ChromeOS is annoyingly fiddly and my suspicion is that this is the Google mind (perhaps subconsciously) not wanting to reveal how generally unnecessary "ChromeOS" would be in a world that collectively "knew that the Linux Desktop existed." And I do mean this "without modification," i.e. most of your top 20ish Distrowatch distros fare perfectly well here.
I always dismissed Chrome OS as a glorified iPad or Android tablet with a keyboard and desktop.
I’m mostly happy with my Linux-based HP dev one, but this is causing me to seriously consider a Chromebook (like this Framework variant) next upgrade.
Chromebooks have easy access to developer mode which gives you root access to the host OS though, so it's kinda moot.
It took them awhile to get there, but with virtual desktops, gesture support, the hardware back button, Chrome tab scrolling (actually OP), I found that ChromeOS is the day-to-day best operating system for browsing the web.
As you note, the Linux support is great but requires a pretty beefy processor, my Pixelbook was the i7 and it still chugged a bit. But overall, amazing OS today, really miss that laptop.
Perhaps the next iteration, though that means replacing the whole chassis/screen (those seem harder to repurpose than the mainboard)
And somehow, this thing got my attention. I don't have any interest in their traditional PC laptop line, but I've been waffling over buying a Pixelbook for years because dealing with Google Support is worse than entering a contract with a devil.
If it helps you reconcile it, Framework doesn't do bulk or business orders right now, anyway, so the target demographic is only individuals.
Is that a misplaced "can't"? (Something like "there's nothing I can't do that I can do on another computer, somewhere else"?)
When I was a child we used to disassemble mechanical/electrical things around the house simply because I asked "How does that work?". On occasion the reassembly didn't quite go to plan and a replacement kettle/toaster/VCR had to be sourced rather swiftly :-)
I fricken lost my titanium SPORKS from my kitchen, one of which was a "businuss card" gift from JD Blair... and I know that nobody stole my sporks... but for the life of me I have no idea where my sporks are, my THREE pairs of $500 glasses that costo made for me and so many other stupid things...(FFS I literally just bought a pair of $150 BT headset, and left it behind within two days of purchase (i was able to get them back - but, yeah...))
I cant imagine if my laptop had removable parts (I leave shit in Ubers all the time)
Nowadays I have a Lenovo Flex 5i Chromebook with an 11th gen intel, 8Gb RAM and a normal Full HD display. It costs approximately half the Framework laptop. The keyboard is really good and backlit, the speakers are MaxxAudio and that actually means they are really good. The flip hinge, touch screen and pen (in the box) work great.
Out of laziness I do developer things on it. Rather than move to the next room to use my 'proper' computer, I install the linux apps and it works really seamlessly. I get that Android is not quite right, but, if you just want to have your notifications come through, it works great.
USB C is a game changer and I no longer want to be able to take my computers apart. I don't want the fans running more than a gentle breeze and I don't want to be taking the machine apart every year to vacuum out the cruft.
In the early Windows/DOS days you would be spending hours moving dip switches and trying to get the machine to work. It was much like automobiles a century ago where constant fiddling was required.
There is a difference between getting work done and tinkering. With a laptop that just works you are doing work not tinkering.
We all want more RAM, CPU speed and so forth and the upgrade option is fine in principle. But do you buy a car with the 1.6 litre petrol engine with the 'benefit' that you can put a 5 litre V8 in there? Nope. But some people make money off YouTube doing this sort of thing so it seems an acceptable 'use case'.
I am not actually negative about the proliferation of Chromebooks at all expense levels, to me they certainly do not have to be bargain basement - hence Chromebook Pixel. But money talks and half of $999 is an unusual spend on a Chromebook, never mind $999.
My hope was that this is just running on the standard Framework laptop hardware, but it looks like it required a bit of a mainboard redesign, as well as a different input cover and keyboard. Extra hardware like that just makes their offering more difficult for a customer to navigate and understand, not to mention the added support and manufacturing burden on the company's side.
Also, completely disagree with your point about locking people into Google ecosystem - this is an OS that just runs a web browser. You need a Google account to log in, sure (actually, there's a guest mode too), but otherwise it's just a browser.
I would love a streamlined Linux desktop that is as technically sound as what ChromeOS does - isolations, integral updates etc. The fact that it comes with a forced leaky pipe to Google mothership to feed their ad monster is a non-starter. We at HN should stop calling it secure*(except you know Google tracking you).
PS. I feel the same way about Windows. So, may be I’m just a grey beard yelling at the sky.
> You need a Google account to log in
These two sentences are contradictory, aren't they? You do not need a google account to run a web browser.
If it really was an OS that "just" ran a web browser, you would be able to run said browser without being forced to use a google account that spies on your web browsing behavior.
> You need a Google account to log in
This is absolutely blatany lock in, let's not sugarcoat or pretend it is not at least.
The problem with Chromebooks is that they are designed to try to get people to "log in" to Google and to use "the [Google] cloud" for storage. Chromebooks in Guest Mode have an array of Google-authored daemons running the the background from read-only media. There is no way to disable them. You cannot even change the options passed to Chrome, e.g., to disable "Origin Trials". This setup is great if you love everything Google, but not great if you just like computers, you bought the computer for the hardware and drivers, and prefer to choose your own software. With these Google programs always running in the background, it means you do not have ultimate control over the computer, Google does. Another annoying thing is that ChromeOS, as well as Chrome, is a WIP. It is constantly changing. For example, bluetooth may be working fine and then suddenly there is an "automatic update" that breaks it. Then you wait for Google to fix it. I am not too fond of that approach to updates. For the systems I create I choose if and when to update them. I prefer stability as opposed to bleeding edge. Chromebooks OTOH assume the computer user is willingly along for the ride as the Chromebook development teams figures out what they are doing.
1. Google likes to boast about Chromebook security. Indeed the Google programs run from write-protected media, and the user is denied access to parts of the storage media, but this type of setup is nothing one could not achieve, before or after the arrival of the "Chromebook", using an open source project such as NetBSD. IMO, the benefit of the Chromebook project is the hardware support, not the deliberately limited storage, lack of user access to parts of the storage media, mandatory installation and running of Chrome and other Google programs. Additionally, one has to consider the "security" implications of an OS that steers people to use Chrome and cloud storage and to remain online. Those Google programs are constantly probing for internet access. ChromeOS is an OS that encourages risk-taking, i.e., giving more data to Google, including storing user data "in the cloud".
I always make diskless systems to be offline by default. I avoid running X11 unless needed, staying in VGA textmode by default. There is no phoning home for "updates" to an advertising company.
Chromebooks are not designed to be offline by default. ChromeOS forces users to launch a GUI and run Chrome. Google is always trying to collect more data about computer users.
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/22/chromebook-explo...
No Chromebook has the desktop class requirements to keep it happy running those Gradle builds.
Sorry, I have a hard time even comprehending your point.
You can run Android apps, right? You can side-load Android APKs, right? Even install F-Droid? You can run Linux apps on many Chromebooks - this one, too?
Most non ARM devices can be fully unlocked to run bare metal linux. Just https://mrchromebox.tech/
> I don't want to be too negative
You are. Though there are certain privacy issues that may be warranted, you seems to make remarks without base.
> Google adware/tracking-ware, locking people into the Google ecosystem
One will always get locked to some ecosystem. Some friends use Facebook as photo storage as REAL-WORLD-USERS do not want to run NAS, RAID, off-site backup. Others having $$$ have iCloud. People that know difference between SAS and SATA run rack-servers.
A simple browser based OS can help run 4GB devices. May be you are comfortable in 4K screen, with dwm tiling wm but others want $200 ChromeOS for just shopping, netflix etc. Oh yes, many people do not have time to download and watch ISO - and get locked into some ecosystem.
> Framework could be spending their time doing much better thin
Lets be honest, Framework knows what is IMPORTANT for themselves than you. This is a good thing. Every bit helps.
The fact that you can unlock it and run regular Linux isn't really the point. Selling a laptop that is pre-loaded with ChromeOS means that it's intended that buyers actually run ChromeOS on it, and I expect most that buy it, will (otherwise they would just get the regular or DIY version). Framework simply endorsing ChromeOS in this fashion is enough of a problem.
> Though there are certain privacy issues that may be warranted, you seems to make remarks without base.
I don't think that's the case, and nothing you've written here seems to contradict what I've said.
> One will always get locked to some ecosystem. Some friends use Facebook as photo storage as REAL-WORLD-USERS do not want to run NAS, RAID, off-site backup. Others having $$$ have iCloud.
That doesn't have to be the state of the world, though. I think all of that is not great, and the solution isn't just to throw up our hands and endorse closed-ecosystem environments.
There are other, less-extreme options in between "I live inside Facebook" and "I run a home server and NAS and host my own social network at home". Unfortunately many of them still aren't quite user-friendly -- though some are -- and the Facebooks of the world wield far too much market power.
> Lets be honest, Framework knows what is IMPORTANT for themselves than you.
You seem to be unreasonably angry over what I said. Maybe cool off a bit? I even acknowledged that there might be good reasons for Framework's business to offer ChromeOS as a product, but you seem to have intentionally ignored that bit.
Then why partner with such an OS ? It is not just the HW switches when I cannot use the very Framework chromebook without a google account - where is the privacy in that.
I was very excited for Framework and I appreciate your responses here but this feels too early a backward move for Framework. Is the market/partnership worth the trust hit ?
I hope I am wrong but this seems like going the Don't be evil way.
Nuts and gum, together at last.
What we're getting is a Framework running a stripped down Linux meant for schools and made by a spy company?
I predict this thing not selling well, but I'm sure someone is excited.
I would think that the upgradability has significant environmental upsides for schools (who otherwise end up ditching computers fairly regularly)
I suspect it also means laptops with minor damage can be fixed more economically or at the very least can be cannibalised for the working parts to fit to other school laptops.
I think we all have different demands. Hopefully with the modularish system they can gradually make us all happy.
Is there really a market for a $999 Chromebook? Didn’t google try this several years ago and flop?
Chromebooks do have a reputation for being under-powered budget mobile devices because they do serve that sector. They also do a lot more that can't be done as easily on Linux, if you have hardware that can support it.
As others have said, Pixelbooks are still coveted devices, and I've been tempted for years to buy one. I thought the original Framework would serve that niche, but it ultimately didn't.
With CCD, you are pretty much free to mess around with the "BIOS" of the machine, without fear of being put in a bad situation.
It also provides a serial terminal to the "AP" (application processor), e.g. available to the OS.
In other words, the Cr50 provides a controlled and user-controlled (but not user-owned) sideband channel to debug the system, even on consumer hardware.
Why user-controlled? Because it requires asserting presence to "Open", which with the design of ChromeOS basically requires being the owner of the device. Why not user-owned? For official ChromeOS devices, AFAIK that firmware cannot be replaced by a user with their own builds.
[0]: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/c...
The Cr50 is as far from user-controlled as you can get. It can MITM your keyboard, reflash your firmware, and obeys only the holder of the private key corresponding to `LOADERKEY_A`:
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433
If the Chromebook is Google's take on laptops, then Cr50 is Google's take on the IME.
As I clearly stated, what is user-controlled is the sideband channel to debug the system on consumer hardware. The sideband channel under the current implementation of Cr50 is entirely user-controlled. This is a fact, as the end-user of the machine has control over the sideband channel.
I did not state any judgement about the GSC itself and its firmware.
And please don't start spreading FUD around hypotheticals of updates changing that. Yes it is possible. But a lot else and worse is possible under that scenario, so it serves no purpose but to spread FUD. And is still irrelevant to the content of the previous comment.
I am asking you, please do not ever derail what I say with FUD or out-of-context quotes ever again.
Thank you.
Other than Apple's M1/M2 chips, there aren't any ARM CPUs that can match the raw power of x86, but Apple has demonstrated what's possible. And it would do a lot to resolve the battery life.
Seems like half of HN readers think Google is the literal devil, but for the other half, why not ChromeOS?
I get it, but good luck taking away my Mac from my cold dead hands.
Hopefully someone can take that fear away.
It's the same sort of cognitive dissonance as if a Michelin-starred sushi restaurant just announced they're adding a Subway Footlong sandwich to their menu.
I wish any vendor would offer a privacy-by-default telemetry-disabled ChromiumOS option I could actually recommend.
1. is it really worse then windows
2. google does has privacy option, partially thanks to the EU forcing them and as far as I can tell they are not randomly "undone" with updates from time to time
3. a lot of more common users do also have instagram and similar, do most things through android/iOS apps and use google search and chrome, or some chrome derivate. How much additional information does using ChromeOs expose?
Don't get me wrong for most people on HN it probably is degrading privacy. But this is not targeting the common HN user.
This is targeting:
- existing ChromeOs users looking for an upgrade
- this includes devs
- this includes less tech affine people
- this includes people which bought that premium Chromebook with a 3:2 Google sold years ago
- this includes a bunch of google (ex-)employs which might have been the driving factor for bringing out a ChromeOs version
- this includes junior devs which grew up with a edu focused chrome book
- presents, Chromebooks can be nice presents to less tech affine users and if they anyway use mainly Chrome and similar it's not necessary "reducing their privacy"
- people feed up by Linux desktop issues but disgusted with Apple Hypocrisy and totally feed up with windows since a while
- especially if they are not supper sensitive wrt. privacy. And while such devs might sound like a myth on HN I have meet docents of them
The main question is if the firmware is in a state where you could just install Linux or Windows if you want.
I don't have a problem with them making a chromebook but not releasing Coreboot firmware for the existing boards is giving me bad vibes, really worried Framework's leadership is compromised.
https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/hdc...
> The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition […] receives automatic updates through June 2030
I wonder if CodeWeavers CrossOver can run Office on ChromeOS reliably.
The first one I got was $550 for the 8GB RAM model with i5 and "retina" screen, that was a refurb from Woot, almost half off. The second one I got around a year ago when Linux container support landed, 16GB RAM, i7, "retina" screen. That one I got off ebay for $120 landed. I also got my son one that he used until a few days ago. Pretty decent little machine for that price.
My son switched to a $120 Windows ASUS laptop this past weekend because the Chromebook wouldn't run Windows games. I was half expecting him to give up on the new laptop because 4GB isn't much RAM, but he says it works great.
My mother in law was recently asking for laptop advice for a "ward of the court" she oversees that could do with a laptop to do zoom meetings for the court appearances, and to use for school. I went looking for Chromebooks and found: they are all priced the same as a similarly speced Windows laptop. The things I value about ChromeOS ("instant" updates, "nothing really on the device", "security") aren't things the average person (let alone teen) really care about... Kind of hard to recommend a Chromebook for the average person these days, unless I'm missing something.
It has only one issue for me, it does not have enough power to run MS Teams on the brownser, and the Android app does not work well.
A native app from MS would be quite nice :)
I’m really hoping they release a standard keyboard with a generic “super” key instead of a Windows logo at some point.
I searched the Framework Chromebook page for "touch" and found 0 results. I hope they are working towards a touch enabled Chromebook.
I personally think that this Framework Chromebook is way to expensive at 999$, but I do fine from a non USD economy, so many technologies coming from US are too expensive for me. That being said, my vision has always been that Chromebooks are light, affordable and battery life that will last longer then you. I paid around 400€ for my Chromebook, the most important specification was FHD IPS display and at least 12h of battery.
I'm aware that Google made Chromebooks with very high prices, but I don't think many bought those.
That's why seeing this laptop for 999$ seem a bit too much, especially now that you can get M1 MacBook Air for the same price! And it's just as user-friendly, if not slightly more.
That's all I wanted... something newer that runs Vulkan too in Crostini :)
And a $300 Chromebook in and EDU environment will last 5-7 years. I wonder if this laptop which is ~4x the price can last 15 years?
Oh well, looks like Apple’s gonna get my money..
ARM chromebooks > Intel chromebooks, and if they continue pushing Intel they’re killing the reason that chromebooks can be both cheap and good
EDIT: And if you want to use it for Crostini… why are you getting a chromebook
No.