Commenters complain that it's 60 Hz but I don't know of an external interconnect that could drive that many pixels any faster.
HN is weird sometimes.
(I don't plan to buy this monitor either, but not for the reasons above. The LG 5K monitors are perfectly adequate for my needs. And like the post's author I was sorry to see target display go).
For what it's worth, it shouldn't be hard from a purely technical point of view to create a DisplayPort-to-TB adapter - all that should be needed is a Thunderbolt chip with a DP connector for input and a TB connector for the output.
The problem is Intel has had exclusive control over TB chips [1] and never released datasheets or made the chips otherwise widely available if you did not order a ridiculous MOQ and signed on for an expensive NDA and got their blessing to implement something like this.
Maybe we will see something like this in the next years, now that the TB spec is pretty much an open standard - eventually some third party will finally be able to develop a TB chipset.
[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-motherboard-asrock-fir...
>I ordered one the minute that they hit the store in the hope I would receive what I thought I had purchased in 2014
One would think that he'd think twice before dropping that much money on a peripheral. Or at least do some research first.
That satirical video where the guy wishes Apple made books so he'd know what to think wasn't far off the mark.
I see why they do it: I bought an apple watch 0 figuring I'd get an idea of what the fuss was about and then buy v3 when they got it figured out. Instead, within the first week, I turned around on my way to work because I hadn't put my watch on.
OTOH I got an M1 ipad pro when it launched and ended up returning it and getting an air which was just as good for my needs. As it happens the pro had some hardware bugs anyway but if I'd liked it I would have just asked them to swap it.
When people were farting around with the “one cable to rule them all” a decade or so ago it seemed like a great approach at the time. I don’t remember anybody predicting this downside.
Displayport with DSC (Display Stream Compression) should be able to drive it faster than 60.
It is a pretty unique display. Too expensive for my taste but I wish there were other 5k / 27" options. And no, 4k on a 27" display isn't even close, primarily because you'd give up a lot of screen real estate with macOS' recommended 2x scaling.
They all follow interoperability standards that have been around decades and that customers have come to expect as normal. Vendor lockin here isn't an "innovation" customers want
None the less, it's Apple. None of this sounds surprising, sadly.
In Apple's defense, the specs are pretty clearly laid out with the ports: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/
But it's resolution is quite high. At this resolution, I think there's only one other monitor, the LG Ultra Fine 5k is which is like only $200 cheaper.
I think for people that care about resolution/pixel density, this monitor has basically zero competition? There's plenty of lower resolution monitors with higher refresh rates.
The LG has its problems. It’s kind of wobbly, cheap feeling, and the USB-C ports can fail over time from strain/use. The extra $200 for the quality and features of the Apple display sounds reasonable to me given that benchmark.
Is it expensive in absolute terms? Yeah. The LG is too. But it’s those two options or step up to the Pro Display at $5k.
$300 cheaper and 8 years old now, so likely can find used examples if you wanted. It's pretty clear that 5k / 218ppi just has no significant market appeal at this point outside of the Apple ecosystem. There were a few other 5k displays, but they've all packed up since (including LG, they don't make that 5k Ultrafine anymore afaict)
Although arguably since the LG comes with a height adjustable stand it's $700 cheaper than the Studio Display 27"
In fast paced games the difference between 4k and 5k is going to be barely noticeable, but the higher framerate will be pretty a pretty obvious improvement (both because of the higher refresh rate, and because the GPU can run the game faster at the lower resolution).
I think even if you only have a 60hz monitor it'll compare 60 vs 30, you should be able to see a difference between them.
I have mine at 180hz and it's extremely easy to track horizontally moving objects at 180hz, and it's almost impossible to see anything in the 30hz content.
The easiest test: move the mouse cursor in a circle repeatedly. The trail at 60hz will complete the full circle, while it will be barely visible at 120/144hz.
So here is what I think Apple should add if they ever want to get serious:
1. An HDMI 2.1 port.
2. Basic Windows and Linux support
3. AppleTV built in. If you are going to add an a14 you might as well use it for something (I have this fantasy that they will unveil a 24 inch consumer targeted monitor introducing this feature). You then add the ability to use this as a nice small tv or computer monitor, but they will probably never do it.
4. For $1,600 it should really be 120hz or higher, but I imagine if they do introduce this the Pro Display XDR will get it first.
"If you just want to use the display and don’t care about the speakers, microphone, or USB-C ports, then by far the simplest solution is to just plug a high-bandwidth DisplayPort cable with a USB-C connector or adapter from your GPU to the Studio Display’s Thunderbolt port. No Thunderbolt cable is actually needed, as the display will happily handshake DisplayPort 1.4 alt mode when connected with a high-bandwidth cable."
So, number two is solveD?
3. I think this is a kind of cool idea, but totally unnecessary. It's a 'studio display', I like that it's focused on being one specific thing.
4.I'm 99% sure that 120hz is not possible. Another commenter posted this math:
"Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.”
Also, the only other widely available 27" 5k monitor is the LG ultrafine, which is just a few hundred dollars cheaper. With the studio display, you get much better product design, a newer panel, really good speakers, a really good webcam, and better connectivity.
In CAD, the studio display is $1999, the ultrafine 5k is 1749$. If you don't think this is a 'serious' response to people who have been asking for a '5k imac without the imac' display, I don't know what to tell you.
I built an AMD gaming rig last year with a motherboard with a TB3 port built-in (one of the few AMD options to support this) but because of how it is configured (there is only one DP-in port on the motherboard and you need two of them over DP 1.2 to get a 5K signal), the LG 5K only outputs at 4K. All things considered, that was a fine trade-off.
But it looks like the new display is DP 1.4 (at least in theory), meaning I can at the very least use the adaptor cable to just get 5K signal, even if speakers and webcam don't work.
I wish all of this were easier and that Thunderbolt were easier, because it's such a great technology and it is frustrating we have so few options.
0: http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome...
The problems are…
- Very, very few Nvidia or ATI cards have USB-C video out. They seemed to stop caring when VR failed to take off a couple years ago.
- So you're left using DisplayPort-to-USBC — but have to find a high-bandwidth DP 1.4 cable. Many of these are incorrectly marked or advertised.
- HDMI to DisplayPort/USB-C is a whole other game I won't cover here.
- even with the DisplayPort working, you cannot control screen brightness or get audio without a USB signal
- which can be solved with some very esoteric Wacom and Belkin VR devices
- but which appear to not run a fast enough USB spec to be useful with the new Studio Display due to all its A13-driven weirdness
- also some setups may require a USB signal to even turn on? I'm a little unclear on this mark.
I've been through several of these hoops trying to get the earlier, TB-only LG 5k working with anything beyond a MacBook, so I've been watching these discussions with interest.
- Yes, plenty of people including USB-C advocates like Benson Leung really wish NVIDIA didn't drop it for the 30-series. Most new laptops have an appropriate port, however, and probably at least a quarter of new motherboards.
- A low bandwidth cable should work; if link training appropriately trains an HBR2 link then it should light up at 4k60 (or 5k60 if DSC is supported.) The more likely issue is that his original cable was one of the majority of USB-C -> DisplayPort cables that is unidirectional in the wrong direction. They only advertise USB-C -> DP, after all.
- The internal webcam and speakers are connected to the USB 2.0 bus; you can verify this in System Profiler on a Mac when connected via Thunderbolt. Whatever is going wrong with the Wacom link is not because USB 2.0 doesn't have enough bandwidth.
iPads are now TB devices.
The same boy way to power a display of that resolution was over a dual link DVI connection which no PC consumer graphics card supported.
I ended up having to purchase an outrageously expensive CAD optimized card but the screen estate was absolutely worth it.
Plus I kept the display for a decade (and migrated to macs in 2006ish) only to replace it with a 27” retina iMac in 2015
Electronic ink has terrible refresh rates, but is great for reading.
Apple's displays can run at 24FPS, which is terrible for gaming, but perfect for editing 24FPS films and shows.
I spend most of my workday either writing code or editing video, for which this less-expensive (relative to Pro Display XDR) model is out-of-this-world PERFECT.
The sound is amazing and would be perfect if paired with a subwoofer. And despite terrible reviews, the built-in camera is just fine for video calls. I think a lot of people don't realize that people only look good on their own screen in video calls, because they are seeing their own video before it gets massively compressed to look just as bad as everyone else.
I solved this problem with https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 . By a problem I mean connecting my monitor (DELL) via "thunderbolt" (it's actually usb-c dp alt) to desktop. I use my monitor as USB hub and I wanted to connect it with just a single cable (usb-c dp alt transfers both video and usb utils).
Driving it on a modern device with anything other than a powered active adapter (near $100 until recently apparently) just doesn't work. I went through a lot of adapters before I stumbled on a USB-C to Dual Link DVI adapter that actually does the job.
I've tried and tried but hooking it to my Xbox has proven basically impossible.
The hdmi ports only do 1080p and despite having a newer Radeon card with a DVI port I haven't been able to get that to work either (It must not be a dual link port?)
This is a 3007WFPT - it has for input Dual-Link DVI, VGA, component, S-Video (should give you an idea of the age) and Composite.
https://jdon.at/OwFuAV - image of the ports
I have an old 30 inch HP that I'm reluctant to replace, but dual link dvi isn't available on new graphics cards. And it'd be nice to hook up my mbp.
It's a 5 year old LCD screen, where given price it's reasonable to expect better dimming. It's outdated in color accuracy as it scores well on DCI-P3, yet poorly on AdobeRGB (86%). For normal monitors these are good values, but they fail to impress for studio work. Further, factory calibration is shit, the white point is far too warm.
Where Apple brags about "billions of colors", it's not a true 10 bit screen. You just can't trust a single thing they say.
It's only 60hz. It's not a gaming screen but I'm just looking for any feature, any at all, to justify the price.
It's intentionally consumer hostile. Not only will it not really work on Windows, it also doesn't have a single button, not even a power button. It's entirely software controlled, and that should make you anxious.
There's no HDR support at all. Come on!? This is no longer a niche thing, it's a core need for videographers.
The stands, both options, do less than the cheapest stand on any other monitor.
All of this fits nicely into their line-up of non-pro screens. Like the bigger Pro Display XDR, according to Apple comparable to Sony's 35K$ reference monitor. Except that it isn't. Apple's display is not uniform and blooms all over the place. It's not a bad pro monitor, it's not a pro monitor at all. It literally cannot be used for color-critical work.
When you're working with 4K images and video, that’s enough space for video editing tools on the side and timelines at the bottom, all while viewing "UltraHD" in its full, unscaled beauty.
Until you've experienced what it's like to use a 5K (or even 6K, which will really spoil you), it's hard to appreciate why 4K is insufficient for many professionals.
Regardless multi-monitor setups exist and are well supported, so it's not hard to get both a 4k preview at 1:1 scaling and have plenty of room for controls by just running 2 displays.
It'd be nice to have it all - 5k, >60hz, and a decent HDR support. Even just 90hz would be a good improvement, but 120hz gets you zero pulldown for 24fps video! But alas that display doesn't exist. This display doesn't seem to really strike a good balance of what's achievable, it feels like a stop gap placeholder for the now canceled 27" iMac
Reading VSCode off this monitor feels like reading analog text on paper. It's amazing for eye strain. Really doesn't feel like you're staring at a screen all day.
This seems more like a moral panic than a true compromise of the functionality of the monitor.
Also, would that monitor you linked be good for office use?
Sounds like it shipped with some last-minute firmware bug that degraded the image quality way below what it's capable of. Should be fixed by a firmware (iOS?) update.
[1]: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27MD5KA-B-5k-uhd-led-monit...
But in general, this monitor, though it's impressive, does not have the features needed for gaming.
That being the case, I'd much rather trade away frames in exchange for improved image quality, as I'm doing in this case.
The author's use case for this monitor doesn't make any sense at all.
An apple fanboy would, apparently.
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr...
The result of this built in magic is that a single USB-C cable leaves my PC and goes to my desk. At this point it terminates into a CalDigit TS3+ and sprawls out to all the devices on the desk.
I would be curious to see whether this motherboard could work directly with the studio display fully featured. Not that I expect it to be good, I expect Apple have added something so that the display only shines when connected to an Apple device.
You should be able to send audio over DisplayPort too, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't support that.
It's not a great experience having to plug multiple USB-C devices into my machine, especially in a WfH world. I'm going to end up damaging a laptop shuffling things around at some point.
Ah well, plenty of other displays available. There’s no real reason to buy a Apple Studio Display for 1600$ for a PC, as there are plenty of other great displays for that price. I got a 27” 4K 120Hz HDR1000 G-Sync display for that amount (Acer ConceptD CP7 / CP7271 or something).
Sure, it’s not 5K, but other than that is is a great display and doesn’t look “gamery”. It uses local dimming for HDR and gets really bright. Looks really good!
The all-USB C aspect of the monitor was fine when I only used it with my Macbook, but made it terribly painful to use with anything else.
In the end I found a HDMI to USB C dongle which worked, also included a plain USB 2.0 cable for audio.
Apparently I was ‘lucky’ to have the 4K rather than 5K, because, from my research at the time, nobody knew of any dongles or cables that would support the latter at full resolution (I think this is the same issue as in your article)
It might be similar to the Apple Developer Transition Kit from two years ago, which was an A12 with extra GPU power. But until someone can get software actually running on it, will be hard to know.
The ability to run something and have it be preformant are two completely different things.
MacBook runs a little slow but it’s more than enough for word processing and web browsing.
I'll never understand why the display industry went went with 720/1080/4k/5k etc. (And the camera industry with another, but I digress) — but:
4k: ~8.3 megapixels
5k: ~14.7 megapixels
That's a huge difference in resolution.
I use a DisplayPort and USB KVM switch to comfortably switch between my gaming PC and Mac mini.
Both PC gaming and Mac work in 144Hz, PC also with G-SYNC.
I don't get these articles or why you'd even buy one of these monitors for this case, even though I own one. I'd grab a random 144Hz 4k jobby instead. But I'm not a fan of punching myself in the balls over and over again for the hell of it.
So far with this monitor I've read pages of whining from people who shouldn't have bought it or didn't buy it. Everyone who should have bought it and did buy it seems quite happy. I know I am!
When all was said and done, the monitor I found turned out to have similar specs to the Thunderbolt display. Color reproduction, pixel response rates. Basically the same panel and driver. It was $100 cheaper than the Thunderbolt display, at the outside. But made of plastic. So I said fuck it, $100 for an aluminum exterior isn't that crazy, and I can pick it up today instead of dealing with UPS.
I just unplugged that monitor a couple months ago, and I keep trying to figure out if I can squeeze it back on my desk by rearranging some things.
Isn’t the webcam one of the selling points? I thought it was 12MP and supported center stage?
I don't want to be the Apple apologist here, but ... really?
And my (limited) understanding is that this is all on-spec; in practice you also have stuff like the power supply could be expected to deliver an off-spec amount like the Nintendo switch chargers and not work, etc etc
I'm all for repurposing things, so I don't blame them for attempting something most rational people would not bother. Been there done that, will attempt it again on something different.
But I actually really appreciate this comment. I'm just trying to have a decent monitor for work that I can also play games with sometimes in the evenings and would rather not have two monitors on my desk.
edit: Sounds like it does, but missing the additional features like audio.
