1: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/health/baby-powder-cancer...
2. https://www.barrons.com/articles/johnson-johnson-stock-pipel...
I asked this question in another post and did not get a reply.
The US links sited state no evidence for talc causing cancer. A search of the NHS website also suggests no clear evidence [1]. Cancer Research (a respected UK charity) give a layman's summary (albeit focusing on ovarian cancer), stating no clear evidence and pointing out that there are far more serious risks to worry about [2].
Given the above, what is the hype about? Is this because the US is so insanely litigious?
[1] https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/search?om=[{%22ety%22:[%22Inform...
[2] https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-canc...
EDIT: Down votes for asking a genuine question? Shame on you.
J&J knew for decades that they were shipping asbestos to consumers in a powder form that's regularly inhaled -- they ghost-wrote and sponsored studies to deny that asbestos existed in their products and lied to the FDA in their disclosures..
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsona...
It seems that most talc doesn't cause cancer -- but some talc has "rather high" amounts of asbestos in it -- which we know causes cancer.
Part of it is the weird setup of jury trials for civil cases, especially impactful in cases revolving around fairly technical, detail-oriented stuff like malpractice.
Twelve randomly selected lay people may not be the best determiners of scientific evidence and in-depth statistical analysis.
Full article here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/business/talc-asbestos-po...
It's benzine. It's a known carcinogen, no need for empiricism here.
Quote from the article:
“Oh, they’ve already reserved for that stuff,” one of them told me during a coffee break. He meant that in Johnson & Johnson’s financials, there had been money taken from earnings and put into a column vaguely called “accrued liabilities,” in order to account for the expected billions that might still have to be paid out in verdicts or settlements.
--------
I wonder how their accrued liabilities column looks like for the sunscreen products.
How do you know that other product lines are not affected by one raw supplier. Maybe there was some pollutant in a supply of product A that lots of companies use and put in their own products. They would also be affected.
The table begins on page 12.
And much like the GM street car conspiracy it's just that, a conspiracy theory: https://la.curbed.com/2017/9/20/16340038/los-angeles-streetc...
From my previous research the benzene is confused with sodium benzene which is safe and widespread. Perhaps manufacture of it leave some trace.
I'd be surprised if their detector confused sodium benzoate for benzene, because sodium benzoate is so common that that would make it a pretty useless detector!
Check your cabinets. I actually found the Neutrogena lotion that we use in the table of affected products!
List of affected products: https://www.valisure.com/wp-content/uploads/Valisure-Citizen...
List of unaffected products: https://www.valisure.com/wp-content/uploads/Attachment-A-Tab...
– Table 2. Benzene detected at 2 ppm or higher.
– Table 3. Benzene detected at 0.1 ppm to 2 ppm.
– Table 4. Benzene detected at below lower limit of quantification (LLOQ).
The closest UPC was the After Sun, but mine was a couple of digits off.
Makes you think what stuff you're putting on that you don't know about!
Have you been able to get back to some semblance of normalcy yet?
Why would anyone trust that 100% of what's in vaccines is fully declared on the labels?
(In this article, Neutrogena is being accused which is part of Johnson & Johnson which produce one of the Covid vaccines available.)
Strongly agree this field of testing/validation is desperately needed.
For example, browser extensions must be analyzed by neutral third parties because the code can not be trusted to be persistently safe with each new publication.
This is similar to different formulations across batches in sunscreen.
I’ve noticed in consumer products like backpacks, the hardware (zipper pulls, etc) can sometimes vary in the same brand and model. The company does not outwardly acknowledge variability, and it is not discussed in product reviews.
Apple made changes to its Secure Enclave Component unusually in fall 2020. [1]
Not every update of every product is going to contain a shocker. But with the rate of releases and rapid adoption of physical and virtual consumer products, we could use less unboxing and more hard analysis of what is shipping and it’s potential for harm.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/12/apple-made-security-cha...
Did they improve their process over the years or just marketing and brand recognition?
IMHO, I prefer an organization like Valisure over the FDA any day. Democratic governments must represent all of their constituents which means there will always be a path (pressure groups, fundraising, etc.) for corporate interests to get outcomes they want under the guise of lobbying their representatives.
When the organization doing the checking is actually independent and setup for the sole purpose of their mission I personally feel much more confident in the findings.
They so far seem like “the good guys” but Id far rather find a way to have a public institution be able to do this without worries as to profit or sustainability.
Seriously. It seems like even relatively loose QC would run full a full chemical composition analysis on the occasional random batch.
CVS Pharmacy, MinuteClinic, CVS Caremark, CVS Specialty, Drogaria Onofre, Longs Drugs, Navarro Discount Pharmacies, Accordant, Coram, Omnicare, Wellpartner, EncompassRx, Aetna, Grupo DPSP.
These parent companies should be held responsible for the products their subsidiaries produce.
Our search was not exhaustive (and I can't really vouch for the link that was used) so if you have a better link, please don't keep it a secret.
Ingredients approved in EU and Asia that offer solid UVA and UVB protections are not yet legal in the US [1]. So we get older 'less good' or 'less reef friendly' ingredients instead.
We ended up buying some imported from EU sunscreen. The US market formulation was actually different and lacked the UVA protection.
[1] https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/official-correspondence/co...
In contrast the quintile of people with the highest exposure to the sun have half the all-cause mortality as the quintile with the lowest sun exposure.[1] In particular sunbathers enjoy significantly lower rates of heart disease, liver cancer, colon cancer, and neurodegenerative disease.
It seems counterintuitive, but it's probably smart to accept the higher risk of skin disease. If you quadruple your skin cancer risk, but lower your heart disease risk by 10%, you're still ahead of the game. Heart disease is 50 times as likely to kill you.
Unless you're going to be outside for very extended periods of time, ditch the sunscreen. It's not needed unless you're at the point of burning. Getting a healthy tan is just that healthy and natural.
That’s mildly interesting, but without analysis that controls for confounding causes, I wouldn’t drive lifestyle choices.
Melanoma rates are almost 3 times higher here than in North America, and we have have strong education surrounding sun protection: https://canceratlas.cancer.org/the-burden/oceania/
I have a widget on my phone that displays the current level and estimated burn time, and can pull up a graph of estimated & forecast (turns out cloudy days DO generally block a lot of UV).
It's great to be able to get as much skin exposed as possible during the low UV periods for gentle UV exposure, then know when to cover up & sunscreen during the harsh periods.
but guess what, after an exhaustive search over a couple years that led to Raw Elements daily moisturizer with SPF 30, it turns out Raw Elements is in this list of affected products! guess you just can't win!
"There is probably no safe level of exposure to benzene, and all exposures constitute some risk in a linear, if not supralinear, and additive fashion."[2]
"on marine vessels benzene air concentrations typically range from 0.2–2.0 ppm during closed loading and 2–10 ppm during open-loading operations" [2]
https://www.valisure.com/wp-content/uploads/Attachment-A-Tab...
[0]: https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-mobile-sourc...
So 2% on a molar basis doesn’t seem obviously inconsistent with 1 vol%
[0]: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2021-03/documents...
Touching the funnel or the pour spout. Sometimes troubleshooting engines, sometimes spilling at the station.
I don't use sunscreen often, and I'd guess I've touched gasoline more frequently than sunscreen in my life.
A quick search shows that oxybenzone is a compound containing two carbon rings.
I couldn’t find any vapor pressure data online , but the boiling temp of oxybenzone is about 70C higher than for benzene, so it’s probably somewhat less volatile.
Oxybenzone: https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C131577&Mask=4
Benzene: https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C71432&Mask=4#Ther...
Yeah I look stupid in the hat, but one advantage to growing older is one quits worrying about that. Besides, my aussie outback hat has grown on me :-)
Wouldn't that be ironic, don't ya think?
Anecdotally, my mother died of multiple myeloma, a cancer related to bone marrow and blood, which is often misheard as “melanoma” (but that’s a different cancer). Her oncologist told me her cancer was associated with benzene exposure, but until now I could not imagine how she might have been exposed.
Other possibilities :
A drug that promises to make you feel good that actually makes you feel bad.
A vaccine that promises to cure you that actually makes you ill.
An economic system that promises prosperity while creating poverty.
Food that creates malnourishment.
It's pretty obvious when you think about it. All you need is a bunch of cheap poison and a good marketing campaign.
It’s pretty good:
Aqua, Diethylhexyl Adipate, Ethylhexyl Salicylate, Pentylene Glycol, Decyl Oleate, Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate, Polyglyceryl-4 Diisostearate/Polyhydroxystearate/Sebacate, Undecane, Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine, Glycerin, Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone, Tridecane, Fructooligosaccharides, Phenylbenzimidazole Sulfonic Acid, Magnesium Sulfate, Zinc Stearate, Hydrogenated Polydecene, Hydrogenated Polyisobutene (synthetic, no Paraffin), Beta Vulgaris Root Extract, Ethylhexyl Triazone, Hydrogenated Poly(C6-14 Olefin), Arginine, Polyglyceryl-3 Polyricinoleate, Parfum, Ethylhexylglycerin, Potassium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Sodium Phytate, Alcohol, Tocopherol, Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil
Needless to say that I do believe in your friend's expertise and intentions. I only posted this to show how impossible it is for normal consumers like myself to assess sunscreen quality.
https://new-layer.com/collections/sunscreen/products/pro-vit...
I take some sun protective supplements instead, which work well enough where I don’t get significantly burned from working outside all day.
The interesting thing to me would be the ratio of shipped products by a brand that are affected. And maybe the total number of affected units.
- 2 ppm is a “best guess” on a safe limit. It’s not like 1 ppm is benign and 3ppm means you’re dead
- 2ppm is an incredibly small quantity of benzene. 3x a very small quantity is cause for concern (why is it there), but not much of a health hazard
- your roasted coffee has a ton of poly aromatic hydrocarbons in it, some of which are carcinogenic and nobody worries about their daily cup of coffee
Aveeno Lotion Baby Continuous Protection Sensitive Skin Sunscreen Lotion Broad Spectrum SPF 50
Babyganics Spray Kid's Sunscreen Continuous Spray - SPF 50
Banana Boat Spray Kids Max Protect & Play Sunscreen CSpray SPF 100
Banana Boat Spray Kids Max Protect & Play Sunscreen CSpray SPF 100
Banana Boat Spray Kids Sport Sunscreen Lotion Spray SPF 50
Banana Boat Spray Protective Dry Oil Clear Sunscreen Spray with Coconut Oil SPF 15
Banana Boat Spray Simply Protect Kids Sunscreen Spray SPF 50+
Banana Boat Spray Ultra Defense Ultra Mist Clear Sunscreen Spray SPF 100
Banana Boat Spray Ultra Sport Clear Sunscreen Spray SPF
Banana Boat Spray UltraMist Deep Tanning Dry Oil Continuous Clear Spray SPF 4
Coppertone Spray Whipped Sunscreen Lotion Spray SPF 50
CVS Health Gel After-sun Aloe Vera Moisturizing Gel
CVS Health Lotion 70 Beach Guard Sun Sunscreen SPF 70
CVS Health Lotion Ultra Sheer Broad Spectrum Sunscreen Lotion SPF 100
CVS Health Lotion Ultra Sheer Lotion Broad Spectrum Sunscreen SPF 45
CVS Health Spray After-sun Aloe Vera Soothing Spray
CVS Health Spray After-sunAloe Vera Soothing Spray
CVS Health Spray Sheer Mist Spray Broad Spectrum Uva/Uvb Cont. Spray Sunscreen SPF 70
CVS Health Spray Sport Clear Spray Sunscreen SPF 100+
EltaMD Spray UV Aero Broad-Spectrum Full-Body Sunscreen Spray, SPF 45
Equate Lotion Kids Broad Spectrum Sunscreen Lotion, SPF 50
Ethical Zinc Lotion Natural Clear Zinc Sunscreen SPF 50+
Fruit of the Earth Gel Aloe Vera Gel
Goodsense Lotion Sunscreen Lotion
La RochePosay Spray Anthelios Sunscreen Lotion Spray SPF 60
Live Better by CVS Health Spray Body Mineral Spray Sunscreen SPF 50
Max Block Lotion Sport Sunscreen Lotion Water Resistance Blue 30 SPF
Max Block Lotion Sunscreen Lotion 4 Fl Oz Broad Spectrum Water Resistant SPF 30
Neutrogena Lotion Sheer Zinc Dry-Touch Face Sunscreen SPF 50
Neutrogena Lotion Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Water Resistant Sunscreen SPF 70
Neutrogena Spray Beach Defense Oil-Free Body Sunscreen Spray - SPF 100
Neutrogena Spray Beach Defense Spray Body Sunscreen SPF 50
Neutrogena Spray CoolDry Sport Water-Resistant Sunscreen Spray SPF 50
Neutrogena Spray CoolDry Sport Water-Resistant Sunscreen Spray SPF 70
Neutrogena Spray Invisible Daily Defense Body Sunscreen Broad Spectrum SPF 60+
Neutrogena Spray Ultra Sheer Body Mist Sunscreen Broad Spectrum SPF 30 Spray
Neutrogena Spray Ultra Sheer Body Mist Sunscreen Broad Spectrum SPF 45
Neutrogena Spray Ultra Sheer Weightless Sunscreen Spray, SPF 100+
Neutrogena Spray Ultra Sheer Weightless Sunscreen Spray, SPF 70
Raw Elements Lotion Eco Formula Sunscreen Lotion SPF 30
Raw Elements Lotion Eco Formula Sunscreen Lotion Tin SPF 30
Solimo Lotion Sheer Face Sunscreen Lotion SPF 55
Sun Bum Gel Cool Down Gel
Sun Bum Lotion Oxy Free Zinc Oxide Sunscreen Lotion - SPF 50
Sun Bum Spray After Sun Cool Down Aloe Vera Spray
SunBurnt Gel Advanced After-Sun Gel
TopCare Everyday Lotion Sport Sunscreen Lotion SPF 70
TopCare Everyday Lotion Ultimate Sheer Sun Lotion Sunscreen SPF 55
TopCare Everyday Lotion Ultimate Sheer Sunscreen Lotion SPF 70
Up & Up Gel Clear Aloe Vera Gel
Walgreens Gel After Sun Gel
Walgreens Lotion Broad Spectrum Sport SPF 50 Sunscreen
Walgreens Lotion Sport Lotion Sunscreen SPF 50
Walgreens Lotion Sunscreen Sport SPF 50
Products that aren't affected: https://www.valisure.com/wp-content/uploads/Attachment-A-Tab...
Aloe Vera Gel? Sounds like straight up terrible quality standards to get benzene in an Aloe Vera gel. Stuff like like this makes me hesitant to use any product
A powerful government is needed to check the power of corporations and there need to be consequences for the corporation and its leaders which cause actual harm, so they don't just treat it as another cost to their business.
In other countries you may have a point, I am not sure
Or, even simpler, and less controversial:
Just buy some super lightweight, long sleeved shirts ... like capilene zero or equivalent. And put on a sun hat.
Problem solved.
UV intensity changes with the seasons. Expose your skin to the sun when UVs are lower and your skin will adjust to the higher UV levels slowly over time.
Before the industrial revolution, lots of work was outdoors, such as farming. Changes in industry drove folks to work more indoors, in factories and offices. Combine that with the culture of working all year and vacationing in the summertime. Folks stayed inside when UV intensity was manageable, and went outside for the bulk of their vacation, when UV levels were more intense. No wonder people think they need a product to protect their skin at all times from UVs.
I’m not against sunscreen. I’m against unnecessary use of a product that encourages more use of said product. At high altitude, I’ll sometimes put zinc on my nose and ears, though I usually wear long sleeves to protect the arms.
I have burnt a child though their t-shirt. I have burnt my eyes and have burnt my skin rather too often.
Even vaguely light skin gets burnt with a short duration exposure in January or February.
I think you are under-appreciating people fierce it gets.
Eating saturated fat and avoiding polyunsaturated fat I don't sunburn anymore. At all.
> FDA currently recognizes the high danger of this compound and lists it as a "Class 1 solvent" that "should not be employed in the manufacture of drug substances, excipients, and drug products because of their unacceptable toxicity ... However, if their use is unavoidable in order to produce a drug product with a significant therapeutic advance, then their levels should be restricted" and benzene is restricted under such guidance to 2 parts per million ("ppm").
This reminds me of a story I heard about Kosher Coca-Cola. They had designed it such that its impurities were below a certain threshold. (Googling it now, the ingredient in question was glycerin derived from non-Kosher beef tallow.) However, the consulting rabbi explained that the threshold only applied to accidental impurities; you can't put them in on purpose.
