Plus 620 miles of range, and it is a 4 seater. Expensive as hell, but this is exotic car territory.
Base Specs
Acceleration 0-60 mph1.9 sec
Acceleration 0-100 mph4.2 sec
Acceleration 1/4 mile8.8 sec
Top SpeedOver 250 mph
Wheel Torque 10,000 Nm
Mile Range 620 miles
Seating 4
Drive All-Wheel Drive
Base Price $200,000
Base Reservation $50,000
Founders Series Price $250,000
Founders Series Reservation
(1,000 reservations available)$250,000
> The 2016 F1 cars have a power-to-weight ratio of 1,400 hp/t (1.05 kW/kg). Theoretically this would allow the car to reach 100 km/h (62 mph) in less than 1 second. However the massive power cannot be converted to motion at low speeds due to traction loss and the usual figure is 2.5 seconds to reach 100 km/h (62 mph)
Even adjusting for 60 mph = 2.4s, I don't see how the traction of the Tesla is better.
Formula-E cars are doing 0-62 it in 3s [1]:
> An average Formula E car has a power of at least 250 horsepower (190 kW). The car is able to accelerate from 0–100 km/h (0–62 mph) in 3 seconds, with a maximum speed of 225 km/h (140 mph)
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car#Acceleration
Did you fact check that? Actually, Bugatti is pretty close and partially outperforms, although at a way higher price point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Chiron
" The Chiron can accelerate from 0–97 km/h (60 mph) in 2.4 seconds according to the manufacturer,[4] 0–200 km/h (120 mph) in 6.5 seconds and 0–300 km/h (190 mph) in 13.6 seconds. In a world-record-setting test, Chiron reached 400 km/h (250 mph) in 32.6 seconds, after which it needed 9.4 seconds to brake to standstill.[14]
The Chiron's top speed is electronically limited to 420 km/h (261 mph) for safety reasons.[2] The anticipated full top speed of the Bugatti Chiron is believed to be around 463 km/h (288 mph)."
See: Hennessy Supercars
I’m sure in another 5 or 10 years they’ll get there but these figures are for headlines not the track.
Building fast cars that are a little rougher in finish but can hold their own on the track compared to cars that cost a few times as much is kind of their thing. The teams that work on the Bolt are probably crossing their fingers for this.
Mclaren, Porsche, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, BMW M division are all in the process of producing electric sports cars. I don't think Tesla is holding any technology that makes other makers with a lot more racing experience unable to match their performance.
None of them will? Why? Has Tesla got some trade secret?
Tesla is good at high-end, low volume products. But the Model 3 production fiasco shows they don't know how to do what Detroit and Wolfsburg and Toyota City do. This is in a way a step backwards. Tesla is going back to targeting the 1%.
There are lots of little supercar companies. It's not that hard to build an electric supercar in tiny volume. I know some people who've done it. It's fun, and there are idiots with too much money who'll buy the thing. But it's a waste of engineering talent which should be getting the volume product out the door.
It's a halo car...
Car companies build halo car to get consumers attention to their brand and to sell other models.
Nissan didn't have to build the GT-R R35 but it did because it's a halo car.
Another example is Toyota LFA.
That only works if the Tesla don't bother to deliver the 1,000 'Founder' Roadsters, or Tesla have a way of making them for free.
edit: Ford didn't start Jaguar.
What fiasco? It was obvious from the start that their schedule was wildly optimistic. But that's probably just Elons way of pushing workers as hard as possible.
It's way too early to call the Model 3 a success or failure. Of course it takes a few months to ramp up and stabilize production. It's their first truly mass produced car, and there's a lot of differences from their previous model. Not to mention that they're using a brand new battery.
Let's wait a year to call the Model 3.
Base model requires $45k deposit.
Not sure what semi requirements are.
Even if they are biting off more than they can chew, they can gauge reaction and devote more/less to this. I'm thinking that these ventures give their engineers a space to get really creative and push the envelope. And, these advancements make their way into the mainstream models.
They had multiple real Roadsters at the announcements. You can see a red one in the main event video, and there are pictures of a silver one on Twitter.
But there is so much to be optimistic about! Uber or Lyft or Didi could place 100K size orders of Model 3s for their driverless fleets, with substantial support contracts, by 2019. Powerwalls may become standard components in emerging market power grids in the global sun belt. And envisioning charging stations as travel lounges or overnight rest stops is a stealth real estate and hospitality investment.
Tesla is acting as if the Model 3 will change the game. My personal bias is that the analysts are neglecting the raw consumer demand for this brave new electrical world. And if that holds true, continuing to raise cash to finance their production via stock, debt or pre-orders shouldn't be the hard part. Especially if 12 month price targets in the $350-375 range hold ;)
For comparison, a Falcon 9 v1.1 rocket -- without payload -- at takeoff mass has 1.19 g of thrust.
Imagine having to strap into a HANS device to drive a road car. I want this future.
You're right that it's absurd but most sports cars can do 60-0 in about the same amount of time, it's interesting to think about running that acceleration in the oppisite direction.
Is this a generational leap in energy density? What kind of materials are being used here?
So how in all worlds do they fit a 200kWh battery in there?
This can only mean, it has more than twice the capacity per weight and volume than the current Tesla battery tech. Very intriguing. Of course, it could be a very obvious case of history repeating itself. The original Tesla roadster pioneered the current Tesla battery tech, what would be more appropriate (and reasonable) than to launch the next generation battery tech with the next gen roadster? The high price and corresponding smaller sales numbers allows for an easy introduction of experimental technology.
What happens when a gigantic battery like that starts failing and needs to be replaced? Can they be recycled or maybe refurbished?
That's not even getting into Elon Musk's ever expanding personal commitments with Tesla, SpaceX, Boring company, Solar City and what have you, each making bold new announcements every other week, like saving Puerto Rico (and Australia too, while we're at it).
Australia work is 80% complete: http://reneweconomy.com.au/musk-says-tesla-big-battery-now-8...
There are definitely issues with the Model 3 - but I'd imagine that the production line for the Semi will ramp up significantly after the Model 3 is working, and will involve an entirely separate team.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/11/teslas-hell-threatens-its...
It's almost like.....there's nothing to say about Model 3 right now, where the bulk of their effort is going, because it's just a matter of steadily toiling away ramping up production, just like they said all along. It's almost like....a proportionately tiny amount of their engineering resources have been working on these other projects for some time, and they're just announcing them because.....they're ready to be shown off, and are unrelated to the Model 3 progress.
It's almost like....you're determined to cast this in a negative light, like so many others.
I agree that the main concern should be delivering cars but production delays are solvable while he is still raising money. As soon as he takes his foot off the pedal then their ability to raise money will be much harder than it is while he is announcing new stuff and increasing their risk of going under.
Worst case scenario with his current strategy: they run out of money and an acquirer buys them for the cost of their debt and gets a company with a fully fleshed out product roadmap and some solvable production issues (and no need to solve those issues quickly).
Drop the new product roadmap and focus on production: the going under acquisition is less attractive as they would be acquiring a company with a limited product roadmap and a load of production issues.
He is showing that the future is going to be so amazing that it is worth pouring money into Tesla.
I am really impressed by Elon, even if fails spectacularly he has set things in motion his impact will be there in the fields he touched. In my opinion, he is better than Steve Jobs both in vision and execution.
If his production line isn't as efficient as it should be it will get fixed 'scientifically'. I'd agree with you if his background was different.
You could literally copy-paste comments from the Roaster v1, Model S, and Model X launches and relate them to the Model 3. All of those were a success, and had initial production ramp issues.
Guess what, they all ramped. I can't tell you how disappointing it is to see the HN crowd fall for the SeekingAlpha narrative.
He has already failed once, was bankrupt and almost broke. And struggled to make rents and has climbed out of it.
Failure doesn't mean much for people like this, they win a lot of things along the way even if they fail.
I dunno man, every time before I've said "Tesla/SpaceX can't possibly do that", they've succeeded in doing it (albeit usually a year or so behind schedule) so I've given up trying to tell them what they can't do.
The reason I ask is because that is EXTREMELY impressive. I tune EFI systems on race cars as a hobby, and any car in the 8 second range usually needs to run slicks or drag radials to have enough traction.
Even all wheel drive cars (GTRs, DSMs, EVOs, etc.) usually run 4 slicks once they get to that speed.
It seems very hard to make a pass like that on regular street tires, even with AWD.
EDIT: To add, I'm not knocking Tesla here, as there are very few cars that can actually run an 8 second pass off the showroom floor without any modifications at all. Even if they had to put slicks on the car to reach that time, that still puts it on par with 1000 HP dedicated drag cars.
Roadster will be lighter, have a better drag coefficient, 2x the power (1500hp), 3 motors, 200 kWh battery (?).
According to Electrek's ride along the wheels are "fat" - 325mm rear/295mm front. Dodge Demon's are 315/40R18 Nitto NT05R. https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/new-tesla-roadster-halo/
Should be close!
Horsepower is a misleading figure, because 1000 HP means a maximum of 1000 HP at some engine RPM. So, in other words, if a gasoline car delivers 100 HP @ 0-2000 RPM, and only delivers 1000 HP between 5500-6000 RPM, we call it 1000 HP.
The Tesla delivers its power constantly, from 0 RPM and — more importantly — its torque is also constant and available from 0 RPM. Add to this the fact that an electronic drive train can adjust the power independently for each wheel 100 times per second, which is simply impossible for a combustion engine (mechanical parts transferring that much power can’t switch that fast).
Tesla specs special tires because one of their selling points is "look how quiet EVs are and how little maintenance they need". Said special tires have increased mass over normal tires. Tesla also needs to spec something that delivers a reasonable service life under a big heavy Tesla. You can't just hand wave and say "it's a 700hp rocket, of course it eats tires" because that doesn't fit their brand image. Then there's rolling resistance. They can't spec something that has a ton of rolling resistance because it would tank range.
All of those design criteria require trade-offs from traction and each other.
I think you'll find it's past those. Even 1200hp GTRs don't run eights.
Right, but you're comparing what is ultimately powered by the good old Karl Benz design from the 1880s, burning dinosaur juice, that has zero torque at zero RPM, needs to shift gears multiple times, and is about as responsive to control inputs as a cow munching on marijuana leaves - with a very different thing powered by something that has maximum torque at any RPM, has no gears, and responds to control inputs extremely quickly and with immense precision.
Tesla's vision is completely scattered. I have little faith in them at this time since they can't deliver the "economy" Model 3, but now suddenly have the bandwidth to develop, engineer, ship, and maintain yet another car?
Tesla, ship the Model 3 at scale and then we'll talk.
For the uninformed, a part of building a successful vertically integrated battery, car, and truck company that spans the globe that also uses a brand new powertrain and form factor for their products is getting lots of investment so that you can fund your long-term technology play. To get a lot of investment, you have to sustain the public's interest in your product. If you're in the limelight, you are going to get investment. so why not use your new powertrain and form factor in new products that build upon previous products, thus advancing your technology and locking in future investment thanks to the hype?
Do this for a decade and wow, you actually have a clear path to taking over the world's energy and transportation markets thanks to your incredible technological advantage.
If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at scale.
This makes Tesla look like they care little, because after all they already have your Model 3 money.
Though I do understand the concerns about constant hype and not fully delivering on it, I think that’s infinitely better than the alternative where nothing happens at all.
But their current Model S, X, and 3 aren't exactly flooding the market either.
They shouldn't be trying to do "small quantity" work , and instead should be focused on going wide and getting those Model 3's out the door to the those that have already bought in to the Model 3.
Elon talked during some event how the latency / response time of the torque control in the Tesla drive-train is ridiculous compared to gasoline and for that reason even RWD models should handle well in the snow. To be fair, some people talk about the (at least older) RWD models being a bit crazy on Snow/Ice. I can only assume that the newer models are much better and the Roadster likely better again - plus it's actually AWD but anyway the point was more about the torque control :)
By comparison one of the kings of Launch Control is well known to be the Nissan GT-R. You can see in this wet launch that while it still does a great job, it definitely has some spin as it basically intentionally causes a loss of traction at the start, calculates the traction available based on the acceleration it does get to then adjust the power output and differential splits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTJGE0wzJpE
For other really fun scientific/computerised stability control, this video about the Koenigsegg Agera R is great: https://youtu.be/SywqgH7n-5g?t=34
It shows him literally reefing the wheel side to side at 1m15s while full throttle. Even my 2009 Evo X has surprisingly good stability management in the wet - and it is now probably nearly 2 decades old technology behind any of these other cars and only a 50k car not a 200k-1m car. Still crazy and computers are amazing.
Wave 1: "It's all about legacy and prestige, not speed/acceleration".
Wave 2: "The track handling isn't all that good, how can drivers take that corner at full power without losing traction".
Wave 3: "Alright, we will go electric too".
The best combination is ultimately both though, hybrid systems are already used quite frequently in everything from LMP1 WEC racers to modern hypercars.
Although I seem to recall that many cars bought for sound already play synthesized motor noise through the speakers, simply because if the shift to smaller, better performing engines means that they don't have the same sound anymore anyway.
Moreover, what does this mean to Tesla? Competitors with decades of manufacturing experience cranking out reliable, fast electric vehicles with likely better build quality might pose an interesting problem.
But wave 3 is already here - a lot of smaller companies are talking about making their own electric vehicles. If batteries become commodities, it's going to reduce the R&D cost of making a road legal car by an order of magnitude. We're just waiting on the batteries.
Every morning my car is full, because I plug it in in my garage. So if I don't go more than 260 miles that day, it's plugged in the next night. It doesn't matter that it takes a few hours. My gas car was just sitting in the garage each night anyway doing nothing. How many hours does your car sit idle per day? Probably way more than enough to charge it for your daily driving.
For road trips, there are super chargers.
I was a bit worried, after hearing all the fuss about range anxiety and all that. Overall, charging has just been such a non issue.
This might sound really stupid. But isn't performing such acceleration on a daily basis close to the limit of harming one's health? I mean micro concussions for example.
Really curious because that acceleration is amazing!
Yes, and also the health of nearby drivers, bystanders and inanimate objects.
Fighter pilots and race car drivers pull much greater gs all the time. So do rollercoaster passengers, though.
The Roadster should come with a health advisory
Should this be "a concussion with symptoms which lasted 3 weeks afterwards"? I thought a concussion was the traumatic injury itself.
Either way I hope you are ok!
Apple could do a lot of good by applying their skills to such an important problem. And Tesla's have been called "laptops on wheels" which has some truth it. They have the money, people, and management skill to do it well. Tesla has the industry lead that Apple needs to get in the race.
First thing Tim Cook would do is cancel the semi project, I'd guess. But maybe not.
I hope they don't teach Tesla with their closed consumer enslaving "tech"
Why?
Is that to stand out from the slogan tropes like "fastest car in the world" / "fastest in its class"?
Bugatti probably has them beaten on top speed. This roadster doesnt look very stable at 200+ mph with its short wheelbase.
Of course, electric engines have much flatter torque curve, so they'll be at torque peak all the time until they exceed pack wattage limts.
I guess we'll never know.
(Which sadly means it's unlikely to depreciate into my price range any time soon!)
But nobody speaks about the EV infrastructure.
There has to be some serious A.I to prevent this.
I imagine AWD and TCS will make this much more controllable than most.
the 620 mile range is super impressive. How??? Or is it just that the roadster is super light?
Metric system, where are you?-)
EDIT: Tesla probably should fix their homepage going to a what appears to be the live stream page. I'd have to imagine they are losing valuable pageviews and sales. Tesla.com should be redirecting to either the Semi or Roadster landing pages.
Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/L9oN5
Say they can fill up all the founder series slots along with 5,000 regular slots, that’s $500,000,000. Smart :)
Not every exotic car owner (Ferrari, Lambo, Mclaren) brings their car to the track, but I feel like a good % do. When you own a 200k car, you don't drive it to the grocery store because it attracts too much attention, and you worry something bad will happen to it.
Edit: For more clarification on the grocery getter comment: As an owner of an older exotic car, I've seen that most do not drive their exotics that much. 1-5k miles max/year. The cheapest insurance policies won't let you drive it to any public parking lots. And policies from the normal companies will cost $3-8k in large metropolitan areas for 40-50 year olds. So where do you go? You make excuses to drive it. Cruise to a friends house, drive in the mountains, or to the track if you have time. Daily errands are for your other car. Why risk it. Elon's a pretty good showman, and he makes me feel like I could do anything with this car! But, alas, 200k, I want it to be perfect forever. Even used in 5 years @ 130-150k.
The good/bad thing about electric cars is that they're sort of like computers right now (they're getting twice as good every 1-2 years), so I expect they'll depreciate more along the lines of used smartphones than (the existing market in) used cars.
1.9 seconds
We might be entering a new breed of electric supercars. the 3 second line used to be the gold standard but it seems like electric cars are aiming for sub 1.5 second range....that is insane acceleration.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that...
https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurbu...
Then again, how many people actually care? I don't think they'll have trouble finding buyers.
> Then again, how many people actually care? I don't think they'll have trouble finding buyers.
For comparison, a top fuel dragster does 0-60 in 0.5 seconds.
That said, the stats posted here are faster than any car you can currently buy. Porsche have a very fast supercar at the top of that list now, but it's not as fast as this roadster (again based on the table in this link) and costs 3-4 times as much.
The kind of cars that approach the performance suggested here are generally very expensive, very low volume "Sheikh" cars. Tesla is claiming that they beat all of them, for a lot cheaper. If so... I wouldn't want to be a Porsche dealer in 2021
How far are we from such a feat I wonder, and, can't help but speculate as to why we're not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_(car_body_style)
So, it'll be cramped back there for larger adults.
Meanwhile in reality they're ramping their most affordable car ever.
Some kind of torque vectoring deal in the rear wheels? Like the Electric AMG SLS.
You're seriously implying that blindly accepting what they say is better?
Concept cars often lack mirrors, or have ridiculously small mirrors that wouldn't be legal. Apparently car designers really just don't like adding them.
Hope they stay solvent long enough to ship it.
Would be nice if they could get production of the Model 3 properly ramped up so us peasants who've been drooling over performance electric cars since before we had our driver's licenses can actually get our hands on them...
If you have 1000hp available at any speed not going at least reasonably fast would be an achievement.
Putting 1000hp to the ground at really low wheel speeds in a semi-production ready (let's not kid ourselves, nobody is going to be sending a $200k+ car off the line in high volumes) chassis is the interesting thing here.
Maybe a significant reduction of weight + increase in battery? Whatever it is, it's amazing that they were able to pull it off.
If I was in the market for a car that I couldn't take advantage of driving legally, and had 200k laying around, would definitely buy lol
Then they announce this. (With reservations starting at $200k.)
I wouldn't put retirement money on that one.