undefined | Better HN

0 pointsDCKing11y ago0 comments

The difference being that having a Wi-Fi router means actively powering a device that sends a signal beyond the perimeter and privacy of your home. A signal that, as evidenced by this app, can be passively [1] picked up and processed by any casual passer-by.

Having a Wi-Fi router with an SSID is the equivalent of installing a speaker on the top of your house and have it constantly spell a uniquish name to the neighborhood. It might be useful for you to have that, but you might want to think a bit about what it means for your privacy.

[1]: Not having to aim or target anything, not having to have exotic instruments, but being able to be picked up by anyone at all by just listening.

0 comments

makmanalp11y ago

One could argue that the main purpose of the device (or the main reason users use the device) is not to broadcast identity, it is to let the user connect to the internet within the perimeter of their domicile.

Just like you can argue that the main purpose of windows is not so that people can look in, it's so that people can look out, and light comes in.

I agree partially with what you're saying, but there is a mismatch between user expectation and what the technology actually does. I don't think the fact that the user used it implies they consented to the technical side effects.

fulafel11y ago

Having the lights on in your living room or exercising your vocal cords still fit your description.

DCKingOP11y ago

Neither of these have either:

1) The same accessibility for a passerby outside of your house.

2) The same constant, location identifying properties or information content.

The things you mention cannot be described as beacons.

justcommenting11y ago

I can also passively collect plenty of WEP traffic being broadcasted over public property and decrypt it on my computer (but I don't).

Mozilla's not aiming to do anything remotely as invasive as that, but I still don't find "anything that can be picked up passively from public property is fair game" a very compelling ethical standard, especially for an organization like Mozilla.

DCKingOP11y ago

> I still don't find "anything that can be picked up passively from public property is fair game" a very compelling ethical standard

This is a strawman.

Any public information that can be picked up passively from public property is fair game is the real argument. Decrypting WEP, easy enough as it might be, is still unethical as the information was meant to be private. Making a database of public SSID broadcasts is completely ethical as there should be nothing private about an SSID.

unshure11y ago

It's not the SSIDs but the BSSIDs that end up in the database, isn't it?

1 more reply

justcommenting11y ago

you're arguing that there's a clearly defined category of broadcasted signals that can be clearly defined as public; i'm arguing that at least in ethical terms, what matters is whether the person behind the device knows and understands that their signal is leaking, where, and how that information could be used. for most people most of the time, i don't think that's the case. maybe we should agree to disagree :-)

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsDCKing11y ago0 comments

[1]: Not having to aim or target anything, not having to have exotic instruments, but being able to be picked up by anyone at all by just listening.

0 comments

makmanalp11y ago

Just like you can argue that the main purpose of windows is not so that people can look in, it's so that people can look out, and light comes in.

fulafel11y ago

Having the lights on in your living room or exercising your vocal cords still fit your description.

DCKingOP11y ago

Neither of these have either:

1) The same accessibility for a passerby outside of your house.

2) The same constant, location identifying properties or information content.

The things you mention cannot be described as beacons.

justcommenting11y ago

I can also passively collect plenty of WEP traffic being broadcasted over public property and decrypt it on my computer (but I don't).

DCKingOP11y ago

> I still don't find "anything that can be picked up passively from public property is fair game" a very compelling ethical standard

This is a strawman.

unshure11y ago

It's not the SSIDs but the BSSIDs that end up in the database, isn't it?

1 more reply

justcommenting11y ago

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse