I personally do want an EV, but I have qualms about the smartphone-ification of such cars as well. More importantly, the place where I currently live doesn't have a parking spot with an EV charger (there's a limited number of such spots, you have to join a waitlist to get one). If electric cars really could be charged to be ready to drive 800 miles in 5 minutes, that wouldn't be a problem - but even if this press release is being more or less accurate about the battery claims, I can't buy an EV with this technology today, and as far as I'm aware it still takes significantly longer to charge an EV than to fill up with gas to an equivalent amount.
Now, prior to this, I lived in California for many years from 2011 until 2019, and I saw tons of EV charging stations there. I left with the impression of “wow, charging stations are everywhere”, and that was 7 years ago.
But now in my Midwest metro area, I can honestly say there are zero that I can think of within a 10 mile radius of my house. Not one. (They’re out there somewhere, but they gotta be tucked away because I never notice them enough to remember them.)
It’s no small wonder that all my friends from California drive electric cars, and all my friends from this area (near my childhood home, so I know lots of people) think EV owners are crazy. [0]
If EV charging stations were visibly everywhere and charged in 5 minutes I could say without a doubt that every one of them would be swayed. So I don’t think they’re being irrational at all.
- [0] It is common to go on long road trips here, since the weather sucks, and people really don’t want to rent a car to do it. Plus a ton of people tow shit. Half my friends have campers and the other half have boats.
That's why there is a big backlash against EVs, and I get it. Long term progress means short/medium term pain for some people. Think about all the stress facing software developers with AI progress.
Some empathy and plan to handle these changes would go a long way.
The list is endless
Solid state if it works at scale at right price might give the killer blow as the no of excuses will shrink even further
I would take solid state battery announcements with a large grain of salt.
I doubt they'd sell to endusers, but not having any partnerships with established brands with sales figures is a big red flag.
No mention of manufacturing capabilities either so I think it's just hype (or worse a rug pull for early investors)
Whittingham worked for ExxonMobil. Akira Yoshino worked at a joint venture of Toshiba and Asahi Kasei. And Yoshio Nishi worked at Sony.
They were all giant well-established companies.
Base price $35,000 with the good battery.
Solid state batteries have been working for a while now, but they're still far too expensive. Mercedes has one demo car. Ducati has one demo motorcycle. Maybe they just decided to accept the high cost and sell a high-end product.
If the product is on the market and you can buy one and walk out the door, I feel like claims can easily be validated or invalidated with a tear down.
I've had a brief test ride on a pre-production version of the Verge TS. All seemed OK but I thought the handling seemed weird - maybe due to the rear tyre size and geometry.
Robbie from SAE International, who is of the hosts, and an avid motorcyclist, is impressed with the bike and the promise of SSBs. I only ride bicycles, can’t comment on the bike itself, but thought to share and widen their audience. It was kind of a mini shallow yet “deep dive”. It doesn’t seem to be mentioned on their own site for this episode, but the chapter in Overcast is the last one, linking to https://sustainablecareers.sae.org/article/donut-lab-verge-s...
I hope this battery tech and the statements on the web page are true (370-mile range from an electric motorcycle!), but I'm not writing any checks just yet.
https://www.donutlab.com/nordic-nano-investment/
Their chief scientist is working on solar-powered hydrogen production, which seems fairly unrelated to solid state batteries:
https://www.nordicnano.co/chief-scientist-bela-bhuskute-will...
Though TiO2 nanoparticles appear to be relevant to battery research in general:
It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Free of lithium, cadmium, lead, and cobalt. Uses abundant raw materials free from geopolitical constraints. https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784
Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376
Verge Motorcycles bike with the new battery at CES, apparently at West Hall 5658. Video: https://youtu.be/vmsxYznW9Fs
Donut Lab booth here: https://www.ces.tech/events/ces-unveiled-las-vegas/exhibitor...
Nanoprinted snakeoil - infinitely scalable. Good enough to grab 3M€ public grants and some more from gullible private investors.
Honestly, if they had the tiniest proof of their claims (400Wh/kg, 5min 0-100%, operating temp -30°C to 100°C, no Li/Co/Mn and somebody looking at the production and taking the output to the test) they would be absolutely drowned in money to the point that sama would become jealous.
> Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376
That is only a picture of a factory building. They are 100% greenwash grant grabbers with no real substance. There are plenty of these people in Europe. The motorcycle is likely in China designed and produced.
If grant grabbing is what you'd consider a fulfilling life, then come to Europe - it will be an El Dorado for you.
- [Is this the world’s first solid-state battery? - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/transportation/858514/is-this-the-w...)
Well, maybe there's enough prototype production for motor cycles.
One Youtuber thinks this is a capacitor, not a battery. But that would require a dielectric orders of magnitude better than anything known.
Donut won't talk about either the chemistry or the manufacturing. The only thing they showed at CES was one pouch cell hooked up to a charger at 4.2V, drawing current. Everything else was a 3D printed mockup or an existing electric motorcycle.
This is damn impressive. I suppose all the makers of military drones are lining up at the factory already. I mean, electric bikes are fine, but who has the most burning need to increase range and payload?..
Overall - their page sounds like a revolution in battery industry as they hit all the points - durability, capacity/weight, fast charging, etc. It is like Musk should just close his GigaFactory. I mean, i would like such a revolutionary development as in particular it would mean we'll soon get personal VTOLs (where price aspect is less important than in the case of drones mentioned above) ...
I think until we have an independent lab verify the results, it's pretty much impossible to say if their (Donut Labs) claims are true or not. The only thing I'm particularly suspicious of is that they claim their battery was verified but didn't say by who or provide a whitepaper on it. Both of those seem to be the bare minimum for most battery manufacturers, and with their extraordinary claims I'd assume they'd have them front and center.
10 extra minutes may mean extra 5 kilometers of range, or of a patrol / recon route.
If the drone can fly 10 times it's probably good enough.
Ground teams usually have a bunch of batteries for quick replacement, because charging is slow. With these fast-charging batteries, they may need to lug fewer batteries, and larger generators.
> It can be charged to full in just five minutes without limiting charging to 80%, and supports full discharge safely, repeatedly, and reliably.
> delivers up to 370 miles (600 km) of range and adds up to 186 miles (300 km) in under 10 minutes
https://insideevs.com/news/761403/byd-thousands-megawatt-cha...
If might be for example that in the motorcycle the battery or the other components that have to handle the charge current cannot dissipate heat fast enough to allow charging with the maximum current the batter allows. In an EV the pack shape probably has a higher surface area to volume ratio making it cool better, and an EV might also be able to actively cool it.
Perhaps the problem is the size of the battery being limited in a motorcycle.
Wouldn’t there be a much bigger market and investor interest in putting it in a car initially?
What that means is a small vehicle like a motorcycle needs more energy and hp per lb than a car to have the same range.
So could see higher performance batteries being very useful for motorcycles. Have heard noises that electric motorcycles and bicycles are heavy feeling. So lighter probably would be considered better.
This niche motorcycle brand has already established business relationships with Donut Lab, they were using Donut Lab's electric motors. Probably the Donut people easily worked out a release pipeline together in a bar or something, which would have taken years with VW.
Yeah, they are the same company basically.
But has anyone else had thoughts on how solid "solid state" batteries are?
IE could the frame of my next motorbike be made from solid state batteries?
Claiming that a technology is shipping imminently doesn't fit the normal definition of vapourware.
In the next moment some source of verification could appear, which is fine, then it wouldn't be vapourware. But as of commenting - as of the moment - this is the state of affairs.
If anything, this makes me more cynical that this is a marketing exercise on something that continues to be vapourware until independently verified.
If anyone wants to show/link to an independent verification, feel free!
Clay-like design freedom
They're claiming this not only can fit custom geometries, but can be part of the structure itself. Would love to see what they're building this out of. I expect we'll see some people dissecting the verve cycle batteries soon enough.
We've had "clay-like design freedom" since the early days of carbon-zinc batteries, but it turns out that it's far better (both for manufacturing, chemistry, and safety) to have a continuous volume of relative thermal and electrolytic quiescence that's, largely, isolated from physical strains.
That this is even being highlighted as a "feature" makes other claims even more dubious.
Suffice to say that any battery ("electrolytic cell") that's undergoing dynamic strains will have vastly different levels of conductivity (hence power output and contribution to thermal load) than one that is geometrically static.
Put another way, the performance gains from utilizing the motor as a "stressed member" (akin to F1 monocoque) in combustion vehicles was only possible circa 50+ years after the invention of the 4-stroke cycle. Talk to me in ~20 years.
FWIW, my degree is in electrical engineering and I worked on our college's solar car back when "solar car racing" was "a thing".
You do not want the stressed members of any structure being a salient contributor to its power-train. Not related, see mammalian, reptile, fish, and insect physiologies.
Not a fast vehicle, but tough.
> It can be produced in custom sizes, voltages, and geometries, enabling structural integration and non-traditional formats like serving as the body of a drone or a vehicle chassis.
Battery packs are part of the structure of basically all EVs. That’s not really something new or unique.
1) China has gone all in on batteries. A competitor from Finland would be shocking. Scale is the real issue.
2) Luckily Finland hates Russia so this probably can't be used for Russian drones
Being able to scale out is far more important than the underlying tech ultimately. I'd expect that China would pretty quickly copy this if it proves out and would likely start outstripping them.
Mass manufacturing them is the big issue.
https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D5622AQHRq_efww0ZsQ/feedsh...
regardless, batteries with 10% more wh/kg @ 500% the cost would be used for preciously few things, if any. after a few years of war, Russia had the presence of mind to revert to "quantity has a quality all its own" doctrine.
So then, elephant in the room, where is the catch? It’s it the cost? They haven’t left much else -
- made from geopolitically abundant resources
- unlikely to catch fire
- fully charges in 5 mins
- does not lose capacity over cycles
- retains 99% capacity at -30C and 100C
I don't understand how it can be done though.
FWIW, they are basically the same company. It is good that there were other cameos from independent customers, though, to help add some possible credibility.
The press release also claims:
"and demonstrates a lower cost than lithium-ion."
!
Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[x] it is impractical to manufacture at scale.
[?] it will be too expensive for users.
(Cost unknown, but it's part of a $35K motorcycle, which somewhat limits the possible range unless there's VC chum involved.)
[x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles.
[x] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels.
(Motorcycle, again.)
[x] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures.
[x] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable.
(400 Wh/kg is better than Li-Ion)
[x] it has too short of a lifetime.
[x] its charge rate is too slow.
[x] its materials are too toxic.
[x] it is too likely to catch fire or explode.
[x] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care.
[x] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then.
[x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it.
(not directly addressed, but in combination with the rest, I'll give this a pass.)
[?] your claims are lies.
It kinda looks like they read through this exact list and addressed every item but the last. Where by "addressed", I mean simply that: they made a claim regarding the item.
100000 recharge cycles is "too few"?
Or are you using "x" to mean "this claim is rejected"? If so, on what grounds do you assert "[x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it"?
Totally legit.
You can't just pay $35,000 and ride it away, though. They're just taking pre-orders.
Still, at least you can go kick the tires and make sure it's not just a render on the web site. It's an overly clever design; the rear wheel is hubless.
First, the bike is not new. It's been shipping since 2024, with a conventional battery pack.There are customers and reviews.[1] The "hubless" thing is less hubless than it looks. The rear wheel is the motor, with an outside moving rotor and an inside stator. The stator has a big hole in it. This gives you a large-diameter direct drive motor without dead weight in the center. It also opens up space in the frame to put the battery closer to the ground.
So this is really just an existing bike with a new battery. If they offered a test ride, you'd never know whether it was a solid state battery or not, since that's all about capacity and charging speed.
[1] https://www.wired.com/story/first-ride-verge-ts-pro-electric...
I'd want to uninstall the battery, weigh it, and run a capacity test. I doubt that they will let me.
Or maybe CES is already happening?? [0]
[0] https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-vehicles/donut-lab-produc...
Because of this, now I am even a bit skeptical of their electric motor claims, which before I didn't really question much at all.
190 kcal | 2.32 kw | 1000 g
---------+-----------+------- = 6.68 kW-h/kg
33 g | 2000 kcal | kg
---
[0] https://www.jif.com/products/creamy/creamy-peanut-butter
Watch yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8
No spec sheets though.
[1] https://thenextavenue.com/2025/07/23/how-byds-sodium-ion-bat...
The tech needs to go to another company that can produce something more people are able and willing to buy, and that's going to take a few years before it has a meaningful impact on the market.
https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ts-pro/
The webpage does mention the solid-state battery, and the starting price is 30'000$, so... holy shit?
They are not as safe, light or as good as advertised. Yet.
After delaminating, some caught fire.
Most wet chemistries (LFP) are safer than current dry chemistries.
Donut claim they have GWhr manufacturing capability. The way they claim that feels very third-person.
That being the case, chances are they just white-labelled someone else’s cell technology and packaged the cells in a box (this is super common, virtually every company in eMobility does this with CATL/LG/Sony cells).
Technically it’s a battery made by Donut, yes, but in that case Donut don’t have the valuable IP so don’t be so quick to jump to buy shares or whatever. Making a battery box is fairly easy.
To put in HN terms, if someone sold you a 20TB SDcard knowing your R/W speeds are limited to 100kbps, it's going to take you a while to confirm that the card is actually 20TB. Rough analogy, but there are similar ways you can hide true battery performance.
It's just extremely suspect that a company full of mechanical and electrical engineers, who made (supposed) blow out gains in electrical motors this year, also found the holy grail of (battery) chemical engineering too.
I think light aircraft doing short flights might be pretty interested by the technology. I remember 400 Wh being a threshold above which flights become feasible.
Seems like there's natural skepticism here (https://electrek.co/2026/01/05/verge-unveils-370-mile-electr...), but boy, if it works... Hopefully would be a bellwether for commercial solid-state truly emerging in the next few years.
Fingers crossed this is true.
The magnitude of their unsupported claims is a good indication but I suggest checking out their LinkedIn. They employ a handful of people none of them with a chemistry background, most of them don't have an engineering/science background at all.
The final data point: here's the CEO of Donut Lab also announcing "The World's First True Artificial Superintelligence" in a company where supposedly he is the chairman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 (for contrast here's Donut Lab's video announcement of the SSB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPS2AwMbc).
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/items/a9608639-3897-4878-979b-0d95...
If this guy has developed a revolutionary new battery cell then he has really learned a lot in ten years.
So we have no chemistry and no researchers but this startup claims to have blown everyone else out of the water. We'll see, I guess.
Lithium-ion NMC/Lipo and even LFP are gradually becoming like whale oil lamps and wax candles, inherently unsafe tech to be replaced gradually by safer and more durable tech.
Either they are lying about something, or they are about to be the richest company on the planet out of nowhere.
cz 100k cycles is impressive
ps: Just ordered two new dog collar lights cause the relatively new ones we had fully discharged while the mutts were outside. Now they wont charge. Jesus I hate LiOn.