Is it better than a Tesla? Probably not - there are clearly places in the software where I know that Teslas are more polished (e.g. the "360" parking view which IMO could be a bit better, although I feel like I'm parking in gta 2), and the acceleration won't blow your socks off. However, they're much cheaper and it's a good family car (for us) - definitely for the price.
What are the issues? I thought BYD batteries were as good as they get?
I am pretty sure Teslas sold in my country (NZ) have BYD batteries.
For me it's fine as I still only charge once a week and I still have around 70%-80% usually, unless I visit remote relatives. I could probably stretch and recharge every other week if I really wanted to, but I prefer to have it ready as we sometimes do have longer drives.
BYD atto 3 that OP mentioned:
- 420km wltp range on 60 kwh battery.
Tesla model 3 rwd:
- 554km wltp with 18" wheels - on 56kwh battery.
so tesla is much more efficient while cost difference isnt that much at least in europe. (41k vs 39k)
FWIW Tesla doesn't have 360 parking camera support. They have a digital visualization and a few cameras pop up, but no full 360 camera setup.
Though depending on the wording, they may be able to just build a plant in Mexico and take advantage of NAFTA. I can't tell from the whitehouse post on the tariff if it's tied to country of the manufacturer or just country of origin (usually it's origin).
EDIT: Just to clarify, I would love to be wrong about these concerns, as there will be some who do purchase Chinese EVs. Also it is not about xenophobia, it is about geopolitics and cybersecurity. If someone can reply showing me how my concerns about the CCPs ability to weaponize these cars are unfounded, I would greatly appreciate it.
The factory stays on the same place of an old Ford factory. Ford left...
Fun fact: The street is called Avenue Henry Ford.
Doing very well in New Zealand and Australia
The dealers doing even better with 200% markups....
They seem quite engineering focused which seems to be serving them well.
If Trump is elected, expect then NAFTA to be changed to exclude competitors to Tesla in some fashion. There is already a lot of expectations that a Trump win will heavily benefit Elon: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/business/economy/elon-mus...
They're dumping domestic overproduction on foreign markets. You do that long enough and you can weaken your foreign competitors in their domestic strongholds. This can destroy high-value domestic jobs, lead to atrophy of expertise, and is especially bad to "strategic" sectors of the domestic industrial base.
Tariffs are a tool to protect domestic markets against dumping. Every other nation's automotive companies are free to compete in Western markets because they're not actively engaging in dumping. Their competition strengthens domestic rivals because it is fair and on equal footing.
Australia doesn't care because it doesn't have a domestic automotive industry to protect, so Chinese overproduction is essentially just foreign subsidized stimulus to the Australian population.
Yeah, due to Chinese state subsidies and other assistance, China has a competitive advantage in automobile manufacturing as well as in many other areas. The US needs to show its commitment to free market principles and lets its auto industry die already.
https://www.ft.com/content/8179bd8a-4d96-43a9-a8f9-074f9a275...
On https://apnews.com/article/microchip-electric-vehicles-batte... Tesla is only mentioned by one state loosing a project.
"Many of the companies drawing the biggest subsidy offers — such as Intel, Hyundai, Panasonic, Micron, Toyota, Ford and General Motors — are profitable and operate around the globe. Some lesser-known names in the nascent EV field are getting big offers too, such as Rivian, Volkswagen-backed Scout Motors and Vietnamese automaker VinFast."
US government has handed out tons of low/no interest loans, tax incentives, and tax credits to spur development and deployment of EVs and related technologies like charger infrastructure.
Just this year, there was a $4500 tax credit towards leasing a number of vehicles. I leased a Prius Prime (one of the vehicles eligible) and basically got $4500 off the sticker. Bought out the lease and purchased the car for $4500 off.
We have no domestic car manufacturing and no tariffs.
"BYD received a total of 37.1 billion yuan in tax rebates over the five-year period, nearly four times the 9.3 billion yuan it received in subsidies. Additionally, BYD has secured long-term bank loans at interest rates between 2.05% and 2.98%, lower than the one-year prime lending rate of 3.35%, according to the company filings. "
The overt subsidies mostly existed in the early part of the development process. It's a playbook that's quite commonly used in East Asian economies. Basically it goes like this:
1. Erected barriers to foreign competition and hand out subsidies to simulate local competition
2. Withdraw subsidies to push industries towards mergers and leave only a few big companies in the industry
3. Remove barriers to foreign competitions (i.e. invite Tesla) to foster innovations
4. Export
This makes it devilishly hard to quantify the amount of subsidies received and it's intentional.
China isn't the first to do this but rather borrowed the playbook from Taiwan, Korea, and Japan, who borrowed it from Germany, who, ironically, was inspired by the idea of industrial policy from Alexander Hamilton (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2024-03-14/odd-lots-ind...)
> Last fall in Malta, BYD began selling the Atto 3, an all-electric compact crossover. Strip away the company’s futuristic logo, and it looks almost indistinguishable from other small, sporty SUVs. But inside it’s full of treats, including heated seats in vegan leather and a 360-degree rotating touchscreen. The 60-kilowatt-hour battery gives it a range of 260 miles, enough to circle Malta’s main island twice. And by European standards, it’s inexpensive, at about $28,000. It’s a novelty in Malta. But the real reason BYD is entering the European Union’s tiniest member state? The company’s happy place is emerging markets and countries with no domestic auto industry to defend: “You can basically describe them as a ‘chicken rib market,’ ” says Yu Zhang, the managing director of consulting firm AutoForesight in Shanghai. “All the chicken ribs added up together, it’s more than 10 million cars.”
> After increasing its annual sales in China 15 times over, to 3 million cars in only three years, BYD is now exporting to roughly 95 markets, including 20 new ones this year. The company is building, has recently opened or has announced plans for assembly plants outside China in 10 countries on three continents. The speed and scope of this expansion have caught the global auto industry off guard and triggered protectionist tariffs in the US and EU, where policymakers fear Chinese players such as BYD will, in the words of Elon Musk, “demolish” their domestic automakers.
What's interesting is how they compete with other brands, and I think the trend is for BYD to increase their market share in all countries.
However, I would have liked to have more figures.
Your alternative is a Bloomberg terminal. How much are they, again?
they bank on enterprise billing to keep the lights on.
Mercedes thought themselves to be untouchable due to it being a premium brand with high margins by putting a star on commodity parts, like they're a Swiss watch.
China never managed to catch up to other countries in terms of making combustion engines (it is incredibly hard, and from what I grok they were a generation or two behind), but EVs are mechanically much simpler.
What's more, BYD is following Tesla's playbook of vertical integration and making components inhouse to save money vs outsourcing everything.
I don't see how it's possible to stop China, even if rich western countries band together.
Flooding foreign markets with your heavily-subsidized cars in order to kill your competition is great for you, but not so great for competitors in the market of sale.
Food scales even more than cars, and as a result has about the lowest margin of anything people buy.
If people bought jumbo jets like they bought food we could take several zeros off the price (but this would still be more $$$ than anyone can afford even if they wanted one so it would be stupid to try to scale up jet manufacturing that much)
Their software game is also quite lacking but I was ready to cut them some slack there due to their superior battery tech.
Step 2: Epic road trip.
(Step 2b: If you can be entertaining, put it on YouTube and maybe make a little money?)
Step 3: Be the proud owner of a BYD vehicle, back home in Germany.
Was there a "pay exorbitant import tax" step I missed, that might ruin this clever strategem?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BYD/comments/1f5jg4g/byd_in_europe_...
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...
Right now seems most of his customers may be from people concerned about the environment and/or Climate Change. As time goes on, that will probably change.
There is a reason heads and owners of Companies try and stay out of politics.
Tesla did well initially because they dared to sell a normal car that happened to use electricity. Other automakers finally gave in and did the same. Why would I buy a car from Tesla, who has known QA issues and commands a weird premium price and hasn't "updated" their vehicles in a decade (though I don't personally get that complaint) when I could buy a Hyundai? Or a VW?
I've followed them since 2008 when Berkshire Hathaway took a stake.
Here's the founder on why he still lives in a company flat with the other workers
> 6:34 I'm just an ordinary engineer and due to work requirements I became the chairman of this company but after work we're all equal we live and talk together this is our culture. https://youtu.be/oBdDIuYcpGQ
Although he's probably being modest. Charlie Munger thought he was like a new Edison (mentioned jokingly 3 mins in here with Charlie Warren and BillG https://youtu.be/rZ9AooeFe9E)
Tesla used to be cool when Musk was focused on engineering. It's a bit of a pity he's switched to prancing around on stage with Trump.
Whenever competitors showed up, they laughed at them, before panicking when those upstarts starting challenging their market dominance. It happened with Japan, Korea, and now China. And in other industries, e.g., solar, nuclear power, etc.
So, if you feel China competes unfairly, close off your markets. Countries without a local auto industry (large swathes of Asia, Latin America, the admittedly tiny African market) will accept Chinese EVs readily and it will give them time and experience to perfect their designs and business model. BYD & co. will then snatch American & EU automakers' foreign markets before they come home to swallow you alive by building factories in low-cost gateway countries like Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, Mexico, & Brazil.
Basically, the Toyota cycle will repeat itself because Western (esp. American) automakers spent hundreds of billions on share buybacks instead of R&D.
PS: Wrote this as a reply to another comment, but I feel it needs to stand alone.
