Apple Vision Pro and ADHD (opens in new tab)

Author here—you’re not wrong, I’ve been a gadget enthusiast my whole life, and I deliberately left in the tone that I’m trying to justify owning an Apple Vision Pro, despite its flaws.

I was also serious that the flaws are part of the charm for me, because it really does harken back to the “gadget age” of the 2000s. It takes me back to being 15 years old, wearing a Fossil Wrist PDA, trying to be productive with Palm OS using a fingernail-sized stylus. I really loved that sort of thing, and it’s been really hard for me to recapture that feeling this past decade.

AVP is a device that, so far, has brought me joy and makes me think about my relationship with technology. If not for the price tag, it would be a no-brainer for me to keep. But as I continue to mess around with the device, the price is constantly ringing in the back of my mind, making me want to justify it, even though I may not be able to in the end.

This feels like an unnecessarily derisive take on a blog post where the author seems to just be expressing a personal experience.

I read it as saying "this thing has some major limitations that forced me to slow down, which is actually valuable for me because I have ADHD. I didn't expect that and it's kind of neat, but who knows if that's actually valuable long term. Also here are some other details about the device imo"

As someone who also has pretty severe adhd, I relate to the idea that barriers to impulsivity can be really valuable and it was interesting to read about someone experiencing that unintentionally. It makes me feel more connected to the world of people like me. I didn't come away thinking they're suggesting I buy one because I have adhd, honestly, I came away being _less_ likely to get one because of the author's description of their experience.

It was just an experience another human found neat and wanted to put on their blog. I personally like when people feel comfortable and inspired to share like that.

I find at least a little bit funny that it seems that completely new people now "discover" what you can do with VR, as if this hasn't been a thing for almost 10 years and certainly for the last 5 years (although with slightly lower resolution than with the AVP).

But then again, it helps the entire industry that it apparently has reached a different audience this time who gets hyped again.

I just wish there could be new use-cases than just the same old recycled use-cases like virtual monitors, watching movies, looking at how it is to stand on the moon, or virtual conferencing. Maybe there really are no killer VR apps, except beat saber :/

Wasn't AVP supposed to be an AR headset? Or they just haven't really figured out what to do there? Now it's just a VR headset with passthrough, it isn't really "using" the external world.

Funny because I was saying “Yes! Yes! Yes!” to myself as I was reading. This author totally gets me and what I want out of AVP and it’s the first time I am even seeing it written somewhere.

The attention economy means that every time there's an opportunity, plenty of people will create attention grabbing responses with the common set of hot takes.

Same goes for comment sections and any time people get the opportunity to do anything with a possible attention reward. I've taken to being conscious of the kinds of obnoxious/unhelpful/nitpicking responses when commenting in threads to try to discourage low quality responses.

because the asymmetry of people who are curious and people who buy the new technology creates a demand for first impressions and think pieces

This happened tons with the first Apple Watch back in 2016.

This was basically completely new product category for many, many people. Yes, the Pebble existed, but the Pebble was niche and ultra niche. (I had one; loved the original and the Time).

The first Watch was crazy limited compared to today's variants, but the punditry was unceasing. Especially since you had people debating whether they should spend $10k on basically a flex.

Probably because we all want toys but need justifications so that wives don't get angry.

I don't even get why people spend money on this stuff. You're just paying an idiot tax because you're a sucker for marketing. Someone who waits, say, 5 years before getting something like this will get more enjoyment out of it at a fraction of the price. Or it will just turn out to be a silly gimmick and they'll save the time and money entirely. Stuff like 3D TVs come to mind. The "patient gamers" subreddit seems to agree with this thinking. You basically just delay your game of choice by a few years. Makes absolutely no difference to you except you save money and perhaps skip some disappointing titles.

> I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption device

Same until I got the keyboard. Most of my iPads collected dust in a corner because I don’t really do that much consumption.

Then I got the Magic Keyboard and my iPad basically replaced my laptop. I use it for almost all my non-coding work. Even to give talks and workshops at conferences. The battery life is amazing, the form factor super convenient, and it fits on airplanes or in your lap perfectly.

Nowadays my laptop mostly works as a desktop computer sitting in its dock hooked into a keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Useful only for very serious work.

I don't really get the computer monitor replacement argument - if you are creating as opposed to consuming content (i.e. coding/designing/authoring), then you are going to need a rather better input medium than what a virtual keyboard/mouse will provide. And this better medium, whether keyboard, trackpad, mouse or something else, will be sitting on a desk - with your monitors! If you want more/bigger monitors, then go buy some with the $3499.

I saw you post only occasionally and was intrigued by your first post, [1] about unsubscribing from college. Obviously you're doing just fine if a decade after pulling out of college you can afford an AVP! I'd be interested to read a retrospective on how the last decade has gone.

1: https://joshstrange.com/2012/03/21/why-i-canceled-my-college...

I also pulled the trigger here hoping to be able to replace my desktop setup. What were the key issues you were having that made you feel like it's just not there yet for that use case?

Apple's return policy is 14 days for all their products and is industry standard.

Also I am not sure what the problem is that is unique to those with ADHD. The issues raised are the same for everyone.

I still find it quite odd that the west (or at least the US) has decided that we're entitled to a trial period with things we purchase. It's an incredibly wasteful practice and one that isn't at all common in a lot of other places on the planet. I know people who've moved to Europe who were in for a rude awakening when they tried returning things to the local shop just 'cause.

If you need more than 14 days, it seems a purchase upfront isn't the best idea to begin with. What would be better is to either borrow or rent it from someone/some place that already has one.

Making a purchase is very different from getting one to try. Beyond a 14 days return policy, you start getting abuse from people trying to exploit the exchange policy.

As many people say, 14 days is kind of a standard. Many companies have even fewer days so read the fine print before you buy. If you don't like the return policy, don't buy it.

If you absolutely have to have one on Day 1 but don't feel 14 days is sufficient, maybe evaluate why you need it on Day 1? Wait for some other people to have it in their hands, and the rentals/loans usually start a few weeks after launch.

I think it's a pretty polarizing experience. Either you fall in love with it and go all in, or you don't and it's just not worth the squeeze. 14 days seems plenty of time.

just short enough that the VR/AR novelty hasnt worn off until its over

I think it will be a lot of fun to build it and then because you built it you will be highly motivated to use it for a season. Maybe a few weeks. Maybe 6 months, but eventually it will will be boring too.

I find pomodo style gorilla warfare works best for me. I tell myself I will work on the implementation for 15 minutes. If after 15 minutes I am still repelled by this task to the point I am unproductive, then I accept that, make necessary notes and do something else.

I will try again tomorrow. Eventually I hit a point where I have done enough that I am motivated to continue to see it completed.

I will do gorilla attacks on cleaning my office, writing marketing email, inbox zero, implementing some new feature. It works for me for a lot of things.

When I am just unable to do what I’m “supposed” to do then I give myself grace and go do the thing that is consuming my attention at the moment.

This “unproductive” stuff often becomes new ideas, new features, new friends, and brings meaning to my life.

As a fellow-sufferer of attention deficit, I am the same way. Once I've mapped out a solution, I mentally checkout and procrastinate on doing the actual implementation. One thing that's helped me is by practicing "Deep Work" by absolutely resisting any urge to check my phone during that 45 minute focus time (like pomodoro technique).

Last month, I prototyped a desktop app of a blinking border to assist with getting into a "flow state", which has been pretty effective in keeping me focused for set durations for the past few weeks. Shared with a few friends who have also said it's helped them be more productive so happy to share these tools with fellow HN'ers.

Email in my bio if you wanna give it a try before I launch it on App Store in the coming weeks.

It’s well known that habits and mode of thinking change with environmental cues, and I find that extends to a digital environment as well. If you have a device that’s distinctly a “work” device and you’ve only ever used it for focused work, then your brain will hopefully catch on and keep you within that mode of thinking a little bit more effectively.

However, I find that with ADHD, a good “system” doesn’t solve all my problems. There is then the fundamental problem of regularly using that system, which it turns out ADHD also makes a serious challenge. So, yes, good systems have tremendous value, but just prepare for the undertaking of staying committed to the system you’ve set up for yourself.

I don’t know if “not finishing what you start” is adhd or laziness. How do you know you solved something if you don’t implement it? For myself I have decades of evidence that show the first proof of concept I think of is always very different from the final product. It’s even more different when I’m working with a team.

I have the same problem, and sometimes I'll code with an ageing Thinkpad(just 8 gigs of ram on it and an i5 with pretty bad singe-core perf) on my couch, ssh into my desktop and run Emacs/vim that way. I still have a full environment on my Thinkpad, but the 13" screen means I don't always have my browser open(usually just the one terminal), and if I follow my impulse to open a hundred tabs of docs in a local browser, my system will slow down too much. Forces me to keep a clutter free setup to even get anything done!

Definitely think your idea is worth trying for yourself.

On any Linux system you can have no window manager (or an extremely minimal one) and just start a single application on login. It's been a while since I've done that and most stuff has moved away from X11 now, but yes exactly what you want is possible. To log in and have nothing but a single application, no menus, no desktop, etc.

Well, a lot of people have talked about symlinking /sbin/init to /usr/bin/emacs...

Yeah that would work, minimalism and artificial constraints are ways to help manage ADHD. The other thing to think about it is that your mental solution is probably wrong and won't survive implementation. Consider that a challenge to focus on.

Nah. People will still go to bars. We couldn't wait to be done with the COVID restrictions and I'm still making up for all the lost time, long nights where I roll onto the street at 6am when the last club closes lol.

Also don't forget a motive is to meet people and hook up. That won't be as good virtually as in real life for a long time.

While I definitely understand and even partially agree with you, there's something partially elitist in the attitude of, "just go do it IRL."

This tech will eventually be available to most people on the planet in the same way smartphones are. But vacations to Yosemite likely won't be. And that's not counting doing stuff like standing on Mars or traveling to a fantasy world.

I have an AVP and it is cool as hell, but I enjoy taking it off when I'm done with the thing I'm doing. I think most people like IRL. I don't think having more options for experiences is a bad thing.

I think the writer might have been exaggerating for comic effect. It’s a literary technique

> this might be me showing my age (late 30s)

Mid 20s here and I'm absolutely scared about how people cheer and want these gadgets. Not too far from a black mirror episode, just in slow motion

Just like the lazy humans in Wall-E.

When people ask me what my personal experience of adhd is, I describe it as being the worlds best street magician--except I'm also the mark--and I suck at making things reappear.

I don’t wish to be rude but why do you think the author needs to convince you of something regarding what sounds like a very different and difficult circumstance for you?

Have you tried meditation? I genuinely am asking.

There are some privacy issues with meta that make me shy about trying their vr ecosystem again.

I met a Facebook recruiter once, maybe 3-4 years ago, who was bragging about how his team was collecting data about the interiors and uses of private indoor spaces.

If I'm in a charitable mood, I’ll take that to mean “contents of stores and restaurants,” but I’m not always so optimistic

I got a Quest 2 mostly for entertainment, but using it for productivity reasons is basically a no go for me, due to the lenses (blurry near the edges and some light streaks for any off-center text, not sure what the correct name for that is) and overall resolution (can't even have my actual 4 monitors present without having to make them so big that each takes up like 90 degrees of my field of vision).

I feel like I really should have waited for Quest 3, not have gotten a Quest 2 because it was cheaper. Then again, I quite like the concept of VR and if some of the software wasn't so buggy (currently I need to run GPU drivers from 2020 for my RX 580, since the newer ones cause driver crashes), I can definitely imagine myself spending more time in VR! Except for eye strain and basically staring into super bright screens close to my face.

Once I eventually get there, just chilling in space, with a few floating windows and getting some work done will be a pretty zen experience. Just have to wait a while until the hardware becomes more affordable.

It doesn't come across as laggy, but... smeary? if I move my head to the side, everything smears for a little bit before it snaps back into focus. It's a bit rough for me to move around in, but I'm pretty sensitive to motion.

Things aren’t “slow” in the sense that they’re unresponsive. The UI actually feels great to use—it’s a lot of fun, it’s fluid, and it responds very well to my actions. It’s just that I’m not as fast navigating apps on the Apple Vision Pro compared to using a mouse or a touchscreen. Frustration only occurs when trying to perform a certain action and getting a different result, which doesn’t happen much for me (except in iPad apps with poor compatibility).

Not in my experience, it’s super smooth. There is clunkyness with actually selecting a screen when multiple things are layered however.

Why not wait until it is useful before purchasing it? I know plenty of people who bought the Apple Silicon Macs too early, and their productivity dropped because too many things didn't work.

I think a lot of the complaints around the eye tracking stuff is skill issue — it’s brand new device, people have very few hours of experience. I picked mine like 6 hours ago, and my first session I struggled with targeting, but I spent another couple hours with it pretty much just moving windows around and cleaning the house, and now it’s feeling much more precise. Practice.

I have both headsets and AVP is way more intuitive when you get used to it. I think you're reading too much into this author's penchant for exaggeration.

The Quest 3 UX is still very bad in some places and it is very buggy still. So is the AVP. This is all still early days.

The last thing I'll say is that the Q3 hand tracking is absolutely terrible compared to the AVP. It's not even close.

Interesting, for me working from home is a little easier because I don't have the distractions of the office. I get caught up in everyones conversation, so I end up being distracted every time someone else is doing something.

I've never heard of anything like the concept mentioned in the linked article, what is your app? Is it going to be for MacOS? Have you found it useful?

Do you think the "benefits" (strange to say, but I totally get it) of fatigue and limitations will diminish over time as you get used to the new hardware? Or if the hardware/software itself gets better?

I just wonder if the friction imposed by a new tool—which, in this case, is a net positive—will become less noticeable and therefore less of a benefit. Compared to something like a smartwatch, which has impassable constraints no matter how much you get used to it, or even an e-ink screen.