Same for references. The best you can realistically hope for now is written confirmation of dates you worked somewhere, your job title, and at a push (maybe) your salary, although I've never once found it's in the prospective employee's best interest to disclose previous salaries.
(Depending on where you are in the world your new employer may just be able to get this info from the government anyway or ask for your last payslip).
They used to be called Personnel and their job was to pay salaries, keep track of vacation time, medical reimbursements and the like. Actual work. Good times.
The number of resumes you get that just are not a good fit is crazy. The tech stack doesn’t match, the experience is totally different, etc. and then the ones that DO get an interview have wildly different experience because they embellish their resume.
If you ever do get a handful of candidates that are all actually good matches, it usually comes down to price and likability. If you’re asking for too high of a salary, it’s not impossible but it is a tough sell if there really are equal candidates. Even if you are a good match it is entirely possible that a team simply liked someone else’s personality and culture fit more.
Professionally, I still hate it, but to some degree I understand it. Forgetting even the matter of additional business spent personalizing rejections, the truth is that most of the time the rejection will be taken personally, feelings will be hurt, and any feedback given won't be actionable anyway.
"Sorry, you look good on paper, but your solution to the challenge you was buggy, and you misunderstood the requirements. Go become a better developer."
"Sorry, your code was good, but you struggled to convey information to us. It appears you're a terrible communicator and that would cause problems on our team. Maybe some books on the topic would help, but I doubt it."
"Sorry, you aren't a good fit for our culture. You're abrasive and rude, and talked to the interviewer like you knew better than them. Quit being a narcissistic jerk."
If you're talking about being rejected at the application stage, IME it probably means you didn't follow the instructions completely, you don't actually meet the requirements (remember, it's probably HR or someone non-technical doing the first stage of rejections; they're just driving by checklist, so simple things sometimes get triggered here; if the requirements say "5 years JavaScript experience" and you list "5 years React experience" that might not make it through their filter), or your resume/application needs revising.
Many people who interview candidates have no clue what they're doing. I also started out winging it. And I don't see much training being given to new interviewers, apart from being interviewees.
The chief mistake is interviewers not giving feedback on the spot to check their assumptions/conclusions. Following procedure, but not actually collaborating with the candidate on their shared objective; finding out whether there's a good fit.
On both sides of the table, my advice would be to ensure that the conclusions you're reaching are openly and explicitly put on the table for discussion right there and then.
It does suck that you have to pay to hear the "other side" i.e. a sort of "Honesty as a Service"...
Also, for what it's worth, feel free to reach out (email in profile). I haven't interviewed millions of people, but maybe I can help. And it's always more fun to commiserate with someone.
Unless you mean, they don't tell you why, when they don't even invite you for an interview. That I found very common, but I think it can be a number of things. From stuff that is completely irrelevant to your suitability as a candidate (they already found someone, but they are unsure that person is going to cut it - it's in their interest to not respond and keep you in suspense for a bit, if the other person quits after a week, they might get back to you), or they currently have approval for one new employee, but they're hoping to get another job approved any day..., there are also recruiters and middle men that just want to build up their candidate DBs. I see lots of the same ads from such companies. Then there are all the "we have a great project paying $5xTheUsual, immediate start", but when you talk to them you find you have to help them win that business first... Such companies profit from just having lots of cvs on file to be able to tell a potential customer: we have 20 people with that skill you need.
So, unfortunately not getting a reason for rejection prior to an interview stage is pretty normal.
I once got told why over a phone call, and I suspect that's because in California, recording the phone call without consent is not legal. So it would not be allowed as evidence.
Needless to say, I am not a lawyer.
I guess it may not be in this case (low volume, text content), but this could be a tactic to generate hurdles for anyone attempting to use it in systematic fashion.
I've heard of a case where a state org was required to send some students a set of spreadsheets (I guess they required it).
They printed the spreadsheets, laid the pages out-of-order on a table (to be clear, a physical table, a flat surface made of wood with 4 legs) and took a picture with worse than average lighting and a skewed framing. Technically they complied. A person could, with some effort, read the contents of the spreadsheets. In practice, the students couldn't get to what they wanted (automated verification of the values in the spreadsheets)
TBH it had a bit of an urban legend vibe back when I heard it years ago, but I wouldn't doubt it
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(Un...
Then I was having almost 90% of call backs after sending the CV, I used this one https://www.open-resume.com/
Many years ago, I interviewed somewhere where the HR manager gave me hell. It was a roller coaster emotions. She would say something funny, I would laugh and then she'd take note seriously. Out of the blue, she would ask about my childhood, then switch to why do I look stressed. I had 6 technical interviews before her that went well. I had just lost a family member, talking with her was a nail in my coffin. I was surprised when they called me back.
Two years at the job, a deranged guy accosted us at lunch with my team. He made everyone feel uncomfortable before leaving. Turns out, this was the guy I had replaced. After he was hired he turned into a lunatic who would threaten anyone who questioned his code. The stress test HR made me go through was designed to filter these people out.
I'd like to believe I'm not a psycho since I passed the test, but I don't think it did what it was designed to do. Two of my coworkers are now convicted murderers. One of them with a famous televised trial that just ended last month.
Basically two criminals, one crime.
Wut. Does that include the guy you replaced? Any more details here?
Ex-coworkers, I presume.
> “I do alright”
In 1st and 2nd grade my teacher used to designate a student to watch other students whenever he needs to step outside the classroom. He always picked this one student who had an annoying bestie that would tap someone's shoulder or would call their name, and if they turned around they got reported.
Your story reminded me of this.
I often get profuse written apologies for minor mistakes, such as using the wrong name, which I never care to remember and never factors into decisions because I understand interviewee nerves. Here, the comedy arises from the stark contrast: while minor slip-ups are forgettable and need no apology, a bite surely isn't, making it humorously memorable.
Interesting. I get it, but I've never done this myself (or the had the reverse, someone send one to me).
I think it's interesting just how quickly the power dynamics of "work" change. We can shift from companies throwing money at people to sit around, people working 3 or 4 remote jobs (eventually getting fired, but finding new ones), and ghosting interviews or their first-day-of-work, to people claiming it's a "rough job market" or having to write thank you notes for getting an interview...in a matter of years.
The tech job market is a strange place.
and then it's funny in a tension-relieving way. The common interview experience is having to remain professional while under stress.
1: I’m sorry;
2: I was just hungry, your fingers passed near my mouth;
3: It was a joke;
4: It was your fault;
I'm now going to do the thing that I think you're not supposed to do which is analyze the joke (rather than just appreciate it). My wife has been working hard at writing short stories and I've been observing the learning process and reading a lot of McSweeny's. Comedy writing is a true skill (like Comedy itself) -- and I think this piece really nails it. Comedy is about the unexpected -- leading a reader down a path and then changing directions in a way that provokes laughter, not confusion.
The first brilliant line: "The second time I bit you, I think I was just hungry." The title and opening paragraph imply and lead the reader into thinking that this was a joke about a single bite (which itself is absurd). When that line hits, the absurdity is amped up.
In fact that whole paragraph escalates and escalates the absurdity: "I hadn’t had any breakfast that morning" to "Okay. Full, full disclosure: I’d had a small breakfast" to "The sad irony is that my briefcase was full of leftover sausages from breakfast."
Anyway, I won't droll on here. A great piece and worth digesting if you have any interest in comedy writing :)
Yup. My favorite line was "Frankly, I think this all goes back to my childhood, when I would constantly bite people for no reason."
It just leaves the reader in midair. The started reading that sentence expecting an origin story of sorts, but the "origin" of this behavior is just some more history of unexplained biting.
Faq: The “Snake Fight” Portion Of Your Thesis Defense
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/faq-the-snake-fight-port...
A: We have lots of different snakes. The quality of your work determines which snake you will fight. The better your thesis is, the smaller the snake will be.
So many layers of hilarity. The undertone of academic smugness and superiority. A++++
The Python reimplementation of BibTeX can’t be done soon enough.
So did they follow up?
Mike Edling - LinkedIn = Meg
LinkedIn - Mike Edling = n
Something something sets = Megn
I eventually had to stop after I received a death threat from one particularly upset individual. After I reverted to noncommittal HR-ese, I never had a single candidate push back on their rejections.
I still strongly believe that companies have a responsibility to at least let candidates know when they've been rejected; the increasing prevalence of "ghosting" in hiring is unjustifiable.
The covid mask dispensers are compact enough, but the Hannibal Lecter ones take up some serious square footage right at the entrance. Has anyone considered fire safety?
It’s even worse when stores mandate both for employee safety! Which goes on first?
It’s probably necessary on Market St in SF, tbh.
Well, I knew what he meant, but just to be funny, I took a big bite out of his jugular vein.
And he's yellin' and screamin' and bleeding all over, and I'm like, "Hey, come on, don'tcha get it?"
But he just keeps rolling around on the sidewalk, bleeding, and screaming, you know, just completely missing the irony of the whole situation.
Man, some people just can't take a joke, you know?
Of course I can buy that you'd bite someone out of stress, and maybe a second time because you're hungry. At this point clearly the next step is building rapport through humour, and biting the interviewer is the logical step since that's what you have in common at this stage. And yeah I could get that the interviewer is agitated at this point, disregards your own character and preferences, and this triggers you.
But clearly you'd call. Or go in person. Or even write a card. Not send an email.
But only with a full stomach this time, please!
In any case, common courtesy dictates giving the office a short heads-up so that HR has time to get everybody up to date on their tetanus and rabies shots.
"Thank you for interviewing with us. We are aware that you feel you are an excellent fit for the position and can see yourself having a long career with BigCo. Further, we understand that you thoroughly enjoyed meeting our team and were very impressed with the hiring manager. Lastly, we would like to acknowledge the time we took from our busy schedules in our management positions, and note that your addition to the team would surely help make us all more productive and ease some of our current demands in our daily roles."
One guy said he was a "black belt Ninjitsu." We had him in.
He started talking about his dev skills and I put a quick stop to that. "Tell me about the ninja shit."
"Oh, yeah, I'm a black belt. I can even make myself invisible."
Me and my colleague: O_O "Show me!"
"Right now?"
"Yes! Right now!"
"Well, I can't right now as you know I'm here."
"OK, go out of the room and then come back in invisible!"
"Well, it don't work like that. Like, basically I can walk straight through a crowded party and nobody will even see me."
Methinks there are other reasons nobody is looking at Comic Book Guy-looking man creeping through a party in a ninja outfit....
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/mar/24/broadcasting.b...
The blood started to run over my white shirt, while I was still trying to explain why we were moving data from one database to another on a whiteboard, with one hand trying to stop the bleeding.
I got the job.
Please don't bite me for asking all those questions.
Applicants for Junior roles should really get some feedback, short-but-sweet, it's a learning processes too.
Some people do not find this funny, they may even loose control and go berserker. This little attack may escalate pretty fast!
