It is kind of like how, if a company was trying to tackle health care in the United States, they might attempt to build a system which reconciles many different hospital systems across the country. In other countries, with Universal Single Payer healthcare, this might not be interesting, but in the context of the United States, a system like this could have huge implications.
The market itself is inseparable from what makes a venture like this interesting. It is interesting precisely because of where it is located.
When did coffee shops in the US start asking for tips? It must be a relatively new thing. Never saw tips asked for at coffee shops when visiting until the ipad checkout thing (square?) appeared. Is it a nationwide thing now or just confined to certain regions (coastal metro areas?)?
Tipping at nicer coffee places (i.e. where they offer espresso-based drinks to order) has been a thing for a very, very long time. I can't recall ever not seeing a tip jar and have been going to places like that for probably 25 years, although if you told me the expectation was stronger nowadays that wouldn't surprise me.
The low end places (Tim Horton's up here, I guess Dunkin Donuts would be the comparison), don't expect tips or put out jars / enable them on their terminals, but Tim Horton's has always had a charity jar at the counter anyway so I would think most people would prefer that one.
It took the form of a tip jar. It was my main source of gas money when a barista.
The Pulp Fiction shake quote always comes to mind for me:
Vincent: "I gotta know what a five dollar shake tastes like"
The same simple credit card machines are used at Qdoba, but there they ask for a tip, even when coming in to get a bowl and doing takeout. Not unreasonable, but the difference in experience and expectation is pretty wild: coffee sometimes takes as long as it does to put a burrito bowl together, yet one expects a tip and one does not.
Edit: and while per the other replies many people don't claim (all of) their cash tips, you are supposed to claim them as income.
This would earn you the reputation of being especially expensive, even if customers aren't actually paying you more.
Order, pay, pickup, done. No tip expected (though nobody stops you).
One of the first things I remember as a kid in the 1970s was reading the "no tipping" sign at Dunkin's and asking my parents about it. So it has been a policy there for a long, long time.
(Funny they put a Dunkin's in on my side of town a few years ago, I don't know how many people know the supermarket across the street makes better donuts, which is truly unusual.)
We had a Starbucks in Collegetown which went to only taking mobile orders during the pandemic which meant I pretty much quit drinking coffee there. Not long after Starbucks closed the location to bust the union that was forming there. In my mind that area is a "coffee desert", I mean you can get coffee but so far as I can tell the best coffee is at 7-11 and everything else is much worse.
This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to relent because employees were not keen on earning less money.
Sounds like a false dichotomy. Why is the only other option still an imposed cost on the customer? Wouldn't it be nice if the bad servers just got fired like any other profession and the good servers got a bonus or something from the business owner?
Maybe people shouldn't "aspire" to be cafe baristas and chain restaurant wait staff. There are plenty of students and elderly that could handle the job and also handle the minimum wage. There's no reason those jobs should be lucrative, unless the business owners (rightly) realize those staff are the face of their operations, but in that case, again, the business owner should "invest" in their higher salaries to hopefully bring in business. None of this should be imposed on customers. Just my opinion.
By trying to eliminate tipping, you are working against the interest of waiters since they naturally want to maximize their income. You may not like tipping but it is economically optimal in many contexts. Businesses need to compete for employees and tipping maximizes employee income relative to revenue.
Where I live, most of the bartenders and waiters I know personally earn on the order of $80k/year if they do it full-time, and not at high-end establishments. Not an ostentatious lifestyle but definitely middle class.
It is my understanding that in the US, you're not paid minimum wage. Waiters are paid mostly by tips.
Some may have no wage! Tips only.
Where I live, this is illegal, and I suspect in Europe too, and this is where the lack of understanding comes from.
Now, coffee shops? People behind counters are not waiters, so I am unsure of wage issues, in the US.
There is not an infinite supply of students who have the time to do that job. Our son worked at a coffee shop. Until the manager started pressuring him to work more hours than he had time for.
Some people think other people's jobs are bullshit. And then you end up with a shortage of competent workers. Every job should be lucrative.
But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed.
Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So it's a stupid thing not to have tipping. You're not going to save any money at all as the customer. It's impossible to save money.
Furthermore, I know waitstaff that make a considerable amount of money from tips. Like, $300-$400 per shift and more. That's about $80,000 to $105,000 per year. So the food prices are going to have to go up substantially to cover what that person made with tips. The reason that many wait staff make so much is that they have "regulars" who tip them well because they develop a relationship and a repore that goes beyond just simple waiting on a random customer.
People say they want the price that's on the menu, but come on - you know there's going to be a tip, if the menu says it is $20, then it is $23, you can do this in your head or on your mobile phone. You know exactly what the price will be unless you failed 2nd grade math. Why on earth would anyone care if the price said $20 or $23 on the menu, if in either case you pay $23? It's ridiculous in the extreme. Unless someone is an extreme pedantic martinet.
Im also assuming that a lot of waiters dont pay taxes on the tips (at least when they are paid in cash), which would probably account for some of the difference in income between salary and tips. Here in the EU (most of the countries) at least we have good healthcare and education that is payed from those taxes, so you dont need to pay a 1k private insurance on a waiters salary.
As a tourist to the US, it just seemed silly. The random sales tax percentage, the tip or no tip (calculated pre or post sales tax?) situation.
And due to the tipping thing, I had to carry cash, which I hadn’t done in 20+ years.
It felt like going back in time a very long way.
Ask for what you want, I’ll decide if I’ll pay it and I’ll come back if I liked the service.
Next, why do _some_ waitstaff make a lot of tips, and not others. You don't acknowledge how in almost every biased way possible tipping promotes some people, and punishes others.
Lastly, I personally find tipping and therefore your slightly aggressive defense of it, kinda gross? It's a power-trip at the end of the day to control someone else's actions with your money. Sure, that's life, but with tipping it's so blunt.
more realistically, unless they are capable of finding another job that will pay as much they’ll just end up earning less without tips.
I very much appreciate being able to amble into a coffee shop, order a coffee from a human being (perhaps doing my best in a foreign language I'm not all that proficient in), and paying cash should I so desire. Like you can in most coffee shops around the world.
It's really not common in much of Europe at least for people to actually discourage tipping (though they may seek to refuse what they perceive as exorbitant tips).
Tipping is mostly expected when there is a lot of service involved in the meal. This means either fine-dining, or Meyhanes where you spend 3-5 hours drinking heavily (Raki/Ouzo) and eating mezes & fish.
I think the tipping culture you're talking about is "Bakshish" which is really more of a bribe than a tip. It doesn't exist much in Turkiye anymore (unless you're an Arab or Syrian refugee, their experience is far different than others). Bakshish is still very prevalent throughout the lower Balkans, Serbia and most Islamic nations I've visited and worked in, except for KSA and UAE (they'll kill you for that shit.)
Tip jars are perhaps a more recent phenomenon, but they are now almost ubiquitous in all places that serve anything, event at a counter or to go - including club bars, coffee shops, even many fast food places.
Definitely more of a bribe, and common in a lot of the world, in the countries mentioned but plenty of others, esp. the African ones I worked in; different names but same idea.
A "cost of doing business, and we appreciate the opportunity" gesture. Prove that you're serious, and that you want an actual result.
That's the key point.
Like just the other month I was in this resort with my family and first night we checked in we went for diner - waiter was very polite, entertained my one year old and gave us tips about the area. We didn't have cash on us so we put it on the room and signed the receipt. Next day he was still professional but not as much effort - then I left a tip for both dinners and suddenly it's back to chat mode, how was your stay, parting drink on the house, please do come back, etc.
In coffee shops you can see the looks you get when you wait for small change.
Well, context is important. Right? If someone opened a "tips required" coffee shop in Japan, it could be something to watch and learn from.
I don't generally have a problem with tipping. Still, I would much rather people get paid well, with whatever that cost might be reflected in the price of what you are buying. If, on the other hand, tipping is on the ticket and it is used as an evaluation of the service being provided, the field should be blank by default.
I have tipped way over 15% lots of times. Every time a device tries to force a higher percentage on me, I reduce it because the pattern annoys me.
It is always interesting to travel to places like Japan, where tipping at a restaurant can be offensive.
Not for a long time. It would likely fold within weeks.
I do understand the specific of the US situation, I’ve leave there since the last decade. In a very touristy city to boot, so a large part of my social network rely on tips.
But the lack of awareness from our US friends to understand that they are the exception, not the norm in that particular regard is a bit disconcerting.
. You are the first person served, every time you walk in, no matter how crowded the bar is.
. You are poured the extra liquor that a bartender is allowed to "spill"
. When you bring your date to the restaurant next time, you are treated very well.
It is true that in America, these things are lost because everyone is expected to tip. But this is the true point of tipping a good waiter or bartender, to show your appreciation and also to be remembered.
I had the chance to move around a lot and my social alcoholism made my spend lot of time in seedy places where someone pour out booze.
In all those places, paying more money is just bad taste.
A way to get what you describe is ( in my personal experience )
- smile
- be young and / or attractive
- being visibly in distress
- being polite and patient in the face of another rude customer
- make some jokes, not in English but in the language people speak where you are
- have a dog / a kid
- show that you have some humors and are not an asshole.
With all due respect, paying more and displaying extra wealth is a good way to be classified in the easy to dupe category. In some language due to post WW2 wealth, some folks say “an American” like “do you think I’m American or what ?”
I can assure you that an American tip here will give you a weird look and get you to be treated like a tourist which is not something you wish.
Instead of asking $5 for a coffee they ask for $4. Then you have to pay tax, which for absolutely ZERO reason is not included in the price. You're at about $4.40. Then you tip and end up at anywhere between $5 and $5.50 in actual money you spent on your "$4" coffee.
I take this as local employees stating their entitlement to nickel and dime tourists as much as possible.
:(
dang being super chill by letting it be.
