undefined | Better HN

0 pointsnew2994y ago0 comments

> Would you rather they keep photos non-E2E forever and have even more unfettered access to them than a "backdoor" allows? It does NOT scan photos that are not uploaded to the cloud, despite being on-device.

Yes I'd rather they do this. The fact that they're implementing on device checks doesn't suggest to me that they will be deploying E2E encryption. It suggests to me that they will be expanding on device scanning to all content in the future.

If they were going to make iCloud E2E encrypted, it would be a clear win to announce this at the same time as deploying on device scanning.

0 comments

nicce4y ago

Their PR did not handle this well. If you look at the spec, new encryption level has been added, which allows access by Apple only if CSAM hash threshold is reached. It is E2EE with backdoor now.

new299OP4y ago

Unless you have a public reference, I really doubt this is the case.

Because they’d also need to be announcing that you can no longer reset your iCloud password and recover to a new device. And I’ve not seen anything that suggests this.

So I suspect it is encrypted at rest, with a key known to Apple as before as well as this CSAM approach.

nicce4y ago

There is public reference on Apple site[1].

Citing final phrase on the paper to TLDR their system:

> Apple is able to learn the relevant image information only once the account has more than a threshold number of CSAM matches, and even then, only for the matching images.

This applies only for images, so you can still reset your password. Technically, there are two layers of encryption on images. Regular server-side encryption and this "E2EE like" encryption, which allows access for CSAM matches in specific threshold.

[1]: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

1 more reply

charcircuit4y ago

It's not a backdoor if it's a public part of the system / protocol.

nicce4y ago

Hmm... that is technically correct.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsnew2994y ago0 comments

If they were going to make iCloud E2E encrypted, it would be a clear win to announce this at the same time as deploying on device scanning.

0 comments

nicce4y ago

Their PR did not handle this well. If you look at the spec, new encryption level has been added, which allows access by Apple only if CSAM hash threshold is reached. It is E2EE with backdoor now.

new299OP4y ago

Unless you have a public reference, I really doubt this is the case.

Because they’d also need to be announcing that you can no longer reset your iCloud password and recover to a new device. And I’ve not seen anything that suggests this.

So I suspect it is encrypted at rest, with a key known to Apple as before as well as this CSAM approach.

nicce4y ago

There is public reference on Apple site[1].

Citing final phrase on the paper to TLDR their system:

> Apple is able to learn the relevant image information only once the account has more than a threshold number of CSAM matches, and even then, only for the matching images.

[1]: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

1 more reply

charcircuit4y ago

It's not a backdoor if it's a public part of the system / protocol.

nicce4y ago

Hmm... that is technically correct.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse