Postgres Now the Default Database for Mac OS X Server (opens in new tab)

(momjian.us)

86 pointspixdamix14y ago30 comments

30 comments

26 comments · 9 top-level

gmac14y ago· 6 in thread

The site is timing out for me right now.

Still, whatever the reason for the switch (is Oracle involved?), this seems like a good new default.

I've found Postgres capable, fast, and rock-solid. (At the point I switched from MySQL, a few years ago, I'd be tempted to say that it had approximately none of those three going for it. I'll be happy to hear that MySQL has improved meanwhile, though: is there any particular reason I might consider switching back?).

Someone14y ago

Wherever possible, Apple selects BSD-style over GPL (see e.g. wget vs curl, gcc vs clang)

Worse, MySQL seems to go for a strict interpretation of the GPL (http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/index.html):

"For OEMs, ISVs, and VARs who distribute MySQL with their products, and do not license and distribute their source code under the GPL, MySQL provides a flexible OEM Commercial License."

Compare that with http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence:

"PostgreSQL is released under the PostgreSQL License, a liberal Open Source license, similar to the BSD or MIT licenses."

ComputerGuru14y ago

Given as that's pretty much the only way they can make money, it's obvious they would choose that interpretation (which would be hard to defend in court, BTW).

pluies14y ago

Why would that bit of the license be a problem? (real question, no snark involved)

Apple's version of MySQL on Snow Leopard was GPL and distributed on Apple's own website : http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1068/

Postgres' source on Lion is now available at : http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-107/

2 more replies

rufugee14y ago

Whatever are you talking about? We've been using PostgreSQL in production for 5+ years now, and it's been capable, very fast, and rock-solid all along. I've been using PostgreSQL in other projects for over a decade and it's had all 3 along the way, although speed has constantly improved.

I'm all for cheerleading for PostgreSQL (I really love the tool), but that "a few years ago" comment is just wrong and not really very fair.

joelhaasnoot14y ago

Wouldn't be surprised if the Oracle issue is involved: they are after all also not bundling Java (which is required on first boot (rumor?) but by lots of software in any case). I can imagine they don't want to mess with possible lawsuits or licensing fees in the future with the path Oracle is on.

mark_l_watson14y ago

I installed Lion a few days ago, and Java is not installed. The first time I typed java (or javac) on the command line, it asked if I wanted it installed - it was then automatic, I just had to wait a few mintes.

ehutch7914y ago· 3 in thread

does this mean we'll get a better osx gui for interacting with postgres? all i could find is navicat and it kind of suck.

Terretta14y ago

Lion Server is all about the command line.

gmac14y ago

pgAdmin? http://www.pgadmin.org/

pak14y ago

Egh, pgAdmin doesn't feel native at all. I wish there were a Sequel Pro (http://www.sequelpro.com/) for postgres, with a proper Cocoa UI. Once you use Sequel Pro going back to anything less friendly is a real grind.

Tyrannosaurs14y ago· 3 in thread

Anyone any idea what version they're using?

Tyrannosaurs14y ago

9.0.4 apparently (found it elsewhere).

swaits14y ago

RTFA.

Tyrannosaurs14y ago

I did, it's not stated. If I've missed it can you quote it please but I've looked at both the article and the linked article.

danfried14y ago· 2 in thread

Congrats to the Postgres guys. Even if this is for primarily licensing reasons, pgsql is a solid, powerful database that's easily more powerful than MySQL, and is slowly making gains against Oracle. It's underused, and lacking in name recognition, but hopefully this is the first step towards changing that.

lysol14y ago

Agreed. We're a Postgres shop at work, and the few times I've had to bust out MySQL for a side gig because of client requirements I lament the lack of functions and transactional DDL. It feels like a toy.

rimantas14y ago

Powering Facebook and Wikipedia is not bad for a toy.

1 more reply

ralfd14y ago· 2 in thread

It will be interesting how a discussion (if there is one) on Hacker News will differ from Reddit. There the forty comments did fall in two categories:

1. There is a Server Version?

2. It is spelled OS X without a slash.

Pewpewarrows14y ago

Agreed. While reddit's great for many conversations that never occur on HN, tech discussions are definitely not their forte.

awj14y ago

I wouldn't go that far. I've had some great tech discussions on reddit. Things seem to devolve like this whenever the discussion starts to close in on a topic that any idiot can comment on. There are many of them there, and they do.

mrinterweb14y ago· 1 in thread

I was under the impression that Apple was discontinuing their XServe product line after Jan 31st 2011. If this is the case, what hardware are people running OS X Server on? http://www.macworld.com/article/155483/2010/11/xserve_discon...

reaganing14y ago

Apple sells versions of the Mac mini and Mac Pro as servers.

They're also selling Lion Server as an add-on in the Mac App Store for other systems.

nettdata14y ago

Having upgraded to Lion Server on one of my boxes, I found that Postgres was indeed running. Or at least trying to run. It seems that the permissions weren't set properly on the conf file or data directories, so my log was filling up with "failure to start" messages as it tried to launch Postgres every 10 seconds. Even a "repair permissions" failed to solve the problem, and I had to manually go in and change some ownerships from the root user to _postgres.

Not sure if this is just my issue, but if you did upgrade to Server, you might want to check your system's log file.

tibbon14y ago

I take this as great news. Postgres is my preferred SQL database. I wish I could articulate better why I don't like MySQL as much, but it just feels 'strange' in comparison.

callahad14y ago

As a nice perk, all of the core client binaries [0] (and pg_upgrade [1]) are already present without having Mac OS X Server installed.

That includes: clusterdb, createdb, createlang, createuser, dropdb, droplang, dropuser, ecpg, pg_config, pg_dump, pg_dumpall, pg_restore, pg_upgrade, psql, reindexdb, and vacuumdb.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include any of the server binaries: initdb, pg_controldata, pg_ctl, pg_resetxlog, postgres, or postmaster.

For the curious, I've pasted the output of pg_config at http://www.pastie.org/2275197

[0]: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/reference-client.h...

[1]: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/pgupgrade.html

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

30 comments

26 comments · 9 top-level

gmac14y ago· 6 in thread

The site is timing out for me right now.

Still, whatever the reason for the switch (is Oracle involved?), this seems like a good new default.

Someone14y ago

Wherever possible, Apple selects BSD-style over GPL (see e.g. wget vs curl, gcc vs clang)

Worse, MySQL seems to go for a strict interpretation of the GPL (http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/index.html):

"For OEMs, ISVs, and VARs who distribute MySQL with their products, and do not license and distribute their source code under the GPL, MySQL provides a flexible OEM Commercial License."

Compare that with http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence:

"PostgreSQL is released under the PostgreSQL License, a liberal Open Source license, similar to the BSD or MIT licenses."

ComputerGuru14y ago

Given as that's pretty much the only way they can make money, it's obvious they would choose that interpretation (which would be hard to defend in court, BTW).

pluies14y ago

Why would that bit of the license be a problem? (real question, no snark involved)

Apple's version of MySQL on Snow Leopard was GPL and distributed on Apple's own website : http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1068/

Postgres' source on Lion is now available at : http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-107/

2 more replies

rufugee14y ago

I'm all for cheerleading for PostgreSQL (I really love the tool), but that "a few years ago" comment is just wrong and not really very fair.

joelhaasnoot14y ago

mark_l_watson14y ago

ehutch7914y ago· 3 in thread

does this mean we'll get a better osx gui for interacting with postgres? all i could find is navicat and it kind of suck.

Terretta14y ago

Lion Server is all about the command line.

gmac14y ago

pgAdmin? http://www.pgadmin.org/

pak14y ago

Tyrannosaurs14y ago· 3 in thread

Anyone any idea what version they're using?

Tyrannosaurs14y ago

9.0.4 apparently (found it elsewhere).

swaits14y ago

RTFA.

Tyrannosaurs14y ago

I did, it's not stated. If I've missed it can you quote it please but I've looked at both the article and the linked article.

danfried14y ago· 2 in thread

lysol14y ago

rimantas14y ago

Powering Facebook and Wikipedia is not bad for a toy.

1 more reply

ralfd14y ago· 2 in thread

It will be interesting how a discussion (if there is one) on Hacker News will differ from Reddit. There the forty comments did fall in two categories:

1. There is a Server Version?

2. It is spelled OS X without a slash.

Pewpewarrows14y ago

Agreed. While reddit's great for many conversations that never occur on HN, tech discussions are definitely not their forte.

awj14y ago

mrinterweb14y ago· 1 in thread

reaganing14y ago

Apple sells versions of the Mac mini and Mac Pro as servers.

They're also selling Lion Server as an add-on in the Mac App Store for other systems.

nettdata14y ago

Not sure if this is just my issue, but if you did upgrade to Server, you might want to check your system's log file.

tibbon14y ago

I take this as great news. Postgres is my preferred SQL database. I wish I could articulate better why I don't like MySQL as much, but it just feels 'strange' in comparison.

callahad14y ago

As a nice perk, all of the core client binaries [0] (and pg_upgrade [1]) are already present without having Mac OS X Server installed.

That includes: clusterdb, createdb, createlang, createuser, dropdb, droplang, dropuser, ecpg, pg_config, pg_dump, pg_dumpall, pg_restore, pg_upgrade, psql, reindexdb, and vacuumdb.

Unfortunately, it doesn't include any of the server binaries: initdb, pg_controldata, pg_ctl, pg_resetxlog, postgres, or postmaster.

For the curious, I've pasted the output of pg_config at http://www.pastie.org/2275197

[0]: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/reference-client.h...

[1]: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/pgupgrade.html

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse