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0 pointsrightbyte4y ago0 comments

It is a sort of Nimbyism. Tail pipe emmisions are low for EVs since they have no tail pipe.

ICEs running on renewable fuel has localy observable emissions and are not sexy. The decommision of ICEs are way easier then EVs and the refeuling infrastructure simpler for liquids. It is a shame there is a look-in on EVs.

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simondotau4y ago

Even if the power source is pure coal, EVs are still significantly better than ICE cars when it comes to air pollution per distance travelled, as well as carbon footprint per distance travelled.

Except most power grids are not pure coal, they include some mix of zero carbon energy already. And there are opportunities for EVs to contribute to a high-renewables grid with smarter charging.

And separate to your concern (or lack thereof) about climate and renewables, moving emissions away from the tailpipe has significant advantages for local air quality where most people live.

rightbyteOP4y ago

> ... carbon footprint ...

I was referring to renewable fuel, where the tailpipe carbon goes back into nature.

> moving emissions away from the tailpipe has significant advantages for local air quality where most people live.

Yes, but where most people don't live is also where ICEs are advantageous in that an BEV would need Tesla size batteries for range, which are oversized for normal city-ish driving.

adrianN4y ago

ICEs running on renewables need a lot more renewables. An EV turns something like 80-90% of the power a wind turbine produces into movement. If you want to use synfuels in an ICE you lose >>50% just by turning the electricity into fuel and then the ICE only turns 30% of that into movement.

cesarb4y ago

Playing devil's advocate, the parent comment didn't mention "synfuels" at all, it mentioned "renewable fuel", which includes things like sugarcane alcohol, which is very common here in Brazil as a car fuel; many cars come out of the factory with flex fuel engines which can run on either gasoline or alcohol, and every fueling station I've ever seen always has at least one pump for alcohol.

adrianN4y ago

That is of course a good point. You can make small amounts of those from agricultural waste. If demand outstrips supply from waste though, the area you need to farm to drive a couple of miles is really large. I didn't do the math, but I wouldn't be surprised if you got more energy out of agricultural waste if you turn it into electricity+heat in a biogas setup.

rightbyteOP4y ago

How much of the power of the wind does the turbine turn into electrical power? It is not really a fair comparison.

I think BEVs are a better solution for most cases, but my feeling is that renewable ICEs and EVs with smaller batteries and "trolley bus" solutions just are way downplayed and underrated.

adrianN4y ago

I don't understand what you want to say. The comparison between BEVs and ICEs running on synfuels starts at the point where you want to turn electricity into motion. BEVs are more efficient by a factor of around 6. The efficiency of the wind turbine doesn't matter. You'll need six times as many of them if you want to burn synfuels instead of driving a BEV.

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simondotau4y ago

Even if the power source is pure coal, EVs are still significantly better than ICE cars when it comes to air pollution per distance travelled, as well as carbon footprint per distance travelled.

Except most power grids are not pure coal, they include some mix of zero carbon energy already. And there are opportunities for EVs to contribute to a high-renewables grid with smarter charging.

And separate to your concern (or lack thereof) about climate and renewables, moving emissions away from the tailpipe has significant advantages for local air quality where most people live.

rightbyteOP4y ago

> ... carbon footprint ...

I was referring to renewable fuel, where the tailpipe carbon goes back into nature.

> moving emissions away from the tailpipe has significant advantages for local air quality where most people live.

Yes, but where most people don't live is also where ICEs are advantageous in that an BEV would need Tesla size batteries for range, which are oversized for normal city-ish driving.

adrianN4y ago

cesarb4y ago

adrianN4y ago

rightbyteOP4y ago

How much of the power of the wind does the turbine turn into electrical power? It is not really a fair comparison.

I think BEVs are a better solution for most cases, but my feeling is that renewable ICEs and EVs with smaller batteries and "trolley bus" solutions just are way downplayed and underrated.

adrianN4y ago

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