- remove battery / screen from client device
- send battery / screen to Apple with all clients personal information
- wait for replacement unit (at a price not dissimilar to the price of same model 100% working used device)
- mount new battery / screen after about a week
Its designed in a way to not make any economical sense, but sound like Apple is a real independent repair champion.
Consider taking a moment to donate to https://repair.org/ - we're pushing to get Right to Repair laws passed in state legislatures across the US.
You should absolutely have the legal right to open, tinker with, repair, or otherwise mod any device you own. That doesn't mean prohibiting the legal right to manufacture, sell, purchase, or use devices whose design trades off simplicity of repair for some other property that people purchasing it want more.
"Unlocking: Legalize unlocking, adapting, and modifying any part of the machine, including software."
The backdoor tools the FBI is asking for could easily fall into that category.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying, be very careful what you ask for.
2-3 days would have been a plausible turnaround time. 7 is laziness or a long queue.
I'm not sure why people in tech bother paying inflated prices for easy repairs. Just because you work with software doesn't mean you have to be afraid to turn a screwdriver ;)
Btw Apple also doesnt give you any warranty on supplied parts.
Jessa Jones analyzing leaked IRP paperwork https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OawkqCPi1LQ
I assume they want to be able to confirm the shops aren't also buying counterfeit Chinese components on the side and swapping them in for the genuine ones.
I also assume they want the repair information to feed into their tracking of the history of the device, as it can affect warranty, AppleCare, whether Apple is willing to service the device in the future, etc.
I don't know the details, but can you point to specifics (actual text) that seem unreasonable, or that don't make economic sense? Also remember that with franchises, repair shops, etc., agreements commonly give the franchiser/manufacturer tremendous power. They don't need it in normal cases, but it's reserved to be able to act against "badly behaving" companies trying to cut corners, falsify records, etc.
> I also assume they want the repair information to feed into their tracking of the history of the device, as it can affect warranty, AppleCare, whether Apple is willing to service the device in the future, etc.
> I don't know the details, but can you point to specifics (actual text) that seem unreasonable,
All of that is unreasonable. When you purchase a device, it is yours. Apple isn't asking for repair information but is demanding personal data on customers of the repair shops.
Louis Rossmann has a ton of videos of this program originally.
totally bunk stuff they're doing. "Look, we're complying".
I trust Apple far more than any independent repair shop with my personal information. But also, what personal information is on a battery / screen?
Additionally I use full disk encryption via FileVault on my Mac and keep the passcode enabled on my iOS devices which is known to be secure. No one, not even Apple, knows my password/passcode.
Real independent place wont ask you anything beyond contact email/phone number _if and only if_ they are unable to do the repair on site while you wait/do your shopping at the mall/take a short walk. Since most places stock parts on site you will get your battery swap /screen replacement done right away.
Always a way to game/fight the system.
I had some work done on a device at one of these independent Apple-certified repair locations. There's a sign in the store telling the customers that they may be contacted by Apple to ask how their experience was.
It's a way for Apple to ensure that the shops flying its flag are quality operations. I'm OK with that. I specifically chose that store because of its relationship with Apple.
remove battery / screen from client device... etc...
That sounds like an extreme case. My repair took three days, and only because the shop was out of the battery I needed, and had to order a new one from Apple. The store said the work is usually done the same day.
I don't really care about how easy it is to repair my phone, or at least not as much as I care about using iOS. I knew if my iPhone were to break I'd have to take it to Apple, so I pay for Apple Care (like I pay for iCloud for my backups).
I don't feel like I've been swindled. I feel like I made the purchasing decisions that reflect my budget and concerns.
Similarly for laptops. I had a Macbook Pro that died from a burnt out reverse voltage protection diode (probably cost less than a penny). Apple quoted me the cost of the entire main board. My next laptop was not a Mac, it was a device that was easier to repair and upgrade because that reflected what I valued in a personal laptop.
Why should companies not be allowed to compete along this axis of features? Why do we need to kneecap one business model in favor of another, and limit engineers ability to make design decisions because that business model is not viable?
Surely the markets have spoken. Apple's customers don't care about having a right to repair. If they did, Apple would be selling machines that could be repaired by anyone.
They can be allowed to compete in those features. That's fine. But people should also be allowed to do whatever they want with devices that they own.
Including getting it fixed by a 3rd party.
> Surely the markets have spoken
No, the market has not spoken. Because Apple will sue you if you try to do independent repairs, without going through them.
can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works.
The refurbish iPhone I got, lasted ~100 days before the screen broke. Had to get a new phone. Now maybe I could have gotten apple care on that refurbished phone, but it was new and I didn’t expect to have issues like that
That is what _every_ business-related regulation is designed to do so the general rhetorical question is a bit odd. As to why, well honestly there are many reasons. User control, business competition, e-waste, etc. Look into the reasoning behind similar sorts of regulations involving cars in the US for the last couple generations.
You may not agree with the reasoning, but acting like this sort of regulation is somehow odd doesn't make much sense. There's enormous precedence and lots of reasoning behind it.
The "right to repair" act seems will hurt consumers like me, which prefer a slimmer design than if it's repairable or not. How much repair does it want to push? Repair individual CPU cores?
The free market lets companies make stuff for their targeted consumer groups, which is great. Everyone has a choice, based on individual "budget and concerns".
Almost any device is repairable, Apple repairs devices themselves. When Apple does component level board repair, they do so with schematics and manuals they don't publish and parts you can't buy.
A free market would allow competing with Apple's repair business.
For Apple, I buy used parts in the hope that they come from a genuine device being parted out on eBay each for 50% of the cost of the original device because I know all the new parts are not just fake but bad fakes. I get a part that is past its expiration date, rather abused, but will work. I soak the MacBook in corrosive chemical baths to get the industrial super-strength glue (thank God it’s not epoxy?) to loosen up a little before I get out my exacto, needle nose pliers, a scraper, and a plastic pry tool. I pray nothing breaks while I try to get the part out. Something inevitably breaks (also, try to avoid piercing a battery while you pry it out; li-ion batteries do not like to be manhandled). The cost of a replacement part does not make economic sense. I either let the product sit disused on a shelf hoping to find the part cheaper at a later date, hock the device on eBay for pennies on the dollar for a parts shark to snap up then part out, or throw it in the trash because I’d rather not sell my eight hundred dollar phone for a hundred dollars and this at least gives me the satisfaction of cursing at Apple while I do it.
(Yes, the Apple story is an amalgam of many different adventures with different endings over a decade with many different devices, the majority of which were either ultimately written off or else repaired at prices that didn’t make much sense.)
Oh, in addition to sometimes doing my own repairs, I’m also the final arbiter when it comes to all IT purchases for a school. When I’m asked if we can/should get a fleet of Macs for the faculty and students, I insist we get Thinkpads or Latitudes instead.
God for business, shit for the world. But Apple customers don't seem to care one bit.
Maybe the reason Apple customers don't care is because their machines give them less trouble? And they have more disposable income?
Not defending Apple here (my next computer is definitely not going to be Apple), just trying to understand how Apple users think.
The thing that sucks is other industries/companies copying Apple. Lenovo computers are increasingly becoming harder to repair. Expensive, big machines like tractors are being locked down etc. Samsung made fun of apple when they removed the headphone jack but now Samsung and everyone else is doing the same, trying to squeeze more money out of the customer, airpods style.
Maybe we should make a list of repair friendly, environment friendly and customer friendly hardware and stick only to those.
Disclaimer: you can call me a Apple fanboy, exclusively using multiple Macs for > 12 years, never owned a smartphone that’s not iPhone.
They have implemented their strategy of it being cheaper to pay lobbyists, advertising, events and PR than it is to do the right thing. Eg they don't pay their tax but have a much bigger say in making and enforcement of law than any US tax-payer.
Treating their actions with suspicion and hostility until shown without doubt to be benign is the only sensible response to a company that employs these policies. You're paying for the enforcement of their property rights because you pay a big whack of your income in tax, they don't, they mooch off you.
If Apple weren't held accountable at all, you can be sure they'd declare themselves a sovereign dictatorship w/ Mr. Cook at the supreme leader (/s of course, but...?).
I'd go far as to say the MBP15 has a design flaw where the screen breaks right in the centre where you place your fingers or thumb.
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Allied-Catalo...
If this works and it would bring the cost down, I would still consider trying to get this machine fixed.
I'm a little puzzled. I went on amazon uk where I happened to be and searched "macbook pro battery 2015" and got dozens of results, some with 5* reviews and from reputable companies like Sloda for example. Prices around 70 EUR. I swapped my 2013 Air battery the other day which takes about 2 mins. Not sure how hard it is on the 2015 pro.
I went to a local repair shop for years. I went in a third time in a year to change a battery on an iPhone 8. Each time they apologized, blamed it on a bad shipment of batteries, and repaired it for free. However, on that third time, I chatted them up about the IRP. The guy got extremely hostile about the program.
Screw that place. Took me a while, but I finally did find a IRP after much googling and asking around.
I kind of lost faith in Rossman after he blamed Apple for Customs agents seizing counterfeit parts.
Call AppleCare. That's how I found the one that I used.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/08/apple-offers-customer...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-repair/apple-expand...
"Apple said Wednesday that 140 businesses with 700 locations have signed up for the program in the United States. Some of the independent shops, such as uBreakiFix, have multiple locations, while some are sole proprietorships."
That seems like expanded access, for shops and customers, to me.
I guess that they can't legally claim it's inferior, because of how dreadful their service is in comparison to Rossmann. Apple wants to level the playing field to the bare minimum, i.e. their official repair quality standards.
All this to say that I’m not really seeing a huge benefit of right to repair for consumers. A race to the bottom in price means that there’s no money left to pay/train repair techs well enough to perform the repairs properly (i.e. without taking shortcuts/rushing & thereby causing further problems). This has been my experience so far with the third party shops vs Apple Certified.
I repaired an iPad and two iPhones at indy shops. Shop #1 did the iPad kinda right, except the one button(tm) was crooked after the screen replacement. Shop #2 did the two iPhones perfectly. Even the one with water damage.
So just ask around.
Back the days (and I still believe it's the case right now) in China there are a lot of phone repair shops ran by individuals or small businesses, and those shops are not certified by any programs, they "operate" by someone has skills to repair electronics. I was tricked by them multiple times.
The first time I was repairing my Nokia N95 with a broken screen (N95 has an exposed "soft" screen), I sent it in to one of those shops; a few hours later, I got a call with an estimated price, and I accepted. Until months later I realized the price they charged me almost doubled the price it supposed to be if I went to a Nokia office service center. I agree I had some fault on this one, but I'm not a pro-consumer that knows everything.
The second time I was repairing a SE M608. Based on the lesson from last time, I refused the price they gave to me and want to get another quote from SE certified repair center. Then the latter told me my phone's internal components was swapped and no longer the original one. I suppose that was done overnight in the repair shop after I refuse their price.
Not to mention my friend got working components in her phone "repaired".
Then I never go to independent or 3rd party repair shops anymore, no matter they're certified or not, because I don't trust them.
I know HN have lots of people know how to repair stuff or able to learn from iFixit, but that's not for everyone. I strongly support Apple put more control and audit to the IRP or ASP to make sure they don't trick their customers. On the other hand, I also think Apple should sell repair components directly on their website, so anyone can repair by themselves if they want to.
Some time ago, in Shenzhen, I saw a friend get his laptop component-level-troubleshooted and repaired while we waited and watched. It was a busy shop too, with multiple stalls and a lineup of others waiting for service.
Now when I was asked to pay 400eur for battery replacement for MBP that has double the value I declined. I replaced it myself for some 3rd party battery.
With the nearest Apple store two hours away (and not even open this year), it would be nice if Best Buy could do the work...sigh
ASPs have been around for decades. Computing stores in many US colleges/universities are ASPs. In the past, when Macs were much simpler, they were allowed to do a fair amount of work on then. However, you're right. As Macs have changed and everything has become fused together, ASPs have basically just become an interface between the customer and real Apple. Basically a "Genius" bar not in an Apple Store.
Not only are the terms extremely abusive, what you get from them is a joke.
The benefits of independent repair is that they can repair the actual damage, e.g. by replacing some broken capacitors, connectors or ships on the motherboard. Which might sound supper hard but this are skills anyone who has a stable hand, reasonable good hand eye coordination and is bit clever or at least not stupid can learn in a view month maybe, half a year if they have proper guidance.
Heck anyone who enters the program will not only not get support from Apple to do proper repair they will lose their ability to do so because Apple forbids them to have potential replacement parts for this chips around... (And also makes sure they are not available on the marked.)
The hacker version of the hardware should have user serviceable parts such as motherboard, ssd, battery, screen, memory, keyboard and use standard philips or torx screws.
