Sorry, what? 100$ a month for residential water? Either this guy is running a farm operation or something is seriously broken.
I am not sure who would use 150 gallons a day though. Even 50 gallons (~189 liters) seems a lot to me. If you factor in irrigation system, etc. then maybe you would get to these gallon volumes.
[0] https://www.circleofblue.org/2018/water-management/pricing/p...
So you have 3 people who take a 10 minute shower, and flush the toilet 4 times each, that's 112 gallons/day right there.
Where I live people's bills are going from $100 to over $600 a month. I saw someone's post on Nextdoor saying that their bill was $2700. Ours was $963 up from about $270 with no change in usage. I would be thrilled to pay $100 a month for water.
In summary, I think some poor examples were chosen.
They totally polluted the water tables in the area with by-products of rocket fuel and other industrial chemicals used to clean engines.
They were fined in the 90s and supposedly worked with local water authorities to setup a filtration system... but decades later, they're still finding the pollutants are actually SPREADING to adjacent water tables in communities miles from the original location.
Even worse... many women from the community I grew up in have developed strange autoimmune disorders in their 40s and 50s. Like, a truly abnormal number of them. Many of these women are upper middle class, health conscious, non-smokers, including many athletes. Among those disorders, one of the common ones is issues with their thyroid.
Turns out that one of the major byproducts of rocket combustion - if consumed - is known to fuck up your thyroid.
Am I saying that I know for sure that the pollution of the water tables caused all these women to develop these strange disorders? I can't say for sure. I respect the scientific process and I certainly don't want to jump to any unfair or drastic conclusions, but it seems likely.
As recently as 2011 the area was again hit with a $60 million fine for cleanup. A slap on the wrists for the level of ecological damage they've caused. The water basin in this area is permanently damaged, and seems (even after decades or rain fail) to still be seeping into surrounding areas.
EDIT: For those wanting more specifics...
Aerojet / Rocketdyne is the company. Rancho Cordova is the city.
As for treatments, I wish I had good news. Unfortunately, the women I know who are dealing with this are not seeing great results at all. Some have tried IGIF, Methotrexate, and steroids. It's difficult to call any of their treatments a 'success'. I guess if you consider the fact that they're still alive, that's success... But their quality of life is a fraction of what it once was.
Interesting myself, my wife, and a number of friends have remarked on how a lot of people around us are getting sick with difficult to explain neurological illness in the past few years.
I try to keep my skeptical hat on and say it’s all probably within some base rate, and we are just older, etc. but it doesn’t feel like it and multiple people are having the same bad feeling.
There’s little overlap the people affected though. (The closest thing to a cluster would be Silicon Valley.) I really do hope that the health agencies and CDC are properly doing their job and we’re not missing some response developing to a fairly widespread unrecognized pollutant.
It leads the nation in Superfund sites per square mile.
I live in the area (about 5 miles south of the former lab) and didn't hear anything about it until I moved here. Since then I've read stories about how people living in Simi Valley used to be able to watch some of their rocket tests.
Those labs are also the site of one of the worst nuclear power incident in the US - but this was in the 50s. There are also reports of Rocketdyne shooting barrels of chemicals until they exploded into the 90s. Apparently they regularly and illegally disposed of contaminated materials by burning them in open air pits. That's a little insane.
I would venture to bet there are probably dozens of such sites across the country.
Nothing like HF as an exhaust gas...
Or injecting liquid mercury into an already carcinogenic nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine-burning chamber to boost the thrust...
Publisher's Site: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/ignition/978081359583...
My Review: https://sheep.horse/2019/3/book-_ignition%21_by_john_d_clark...
"...groundwater extraction and treatment systems (GETs) are operating throughout the site: ARGET, GET A, GET B, GET D, GET E/F, GET H-A, GET J, GET K-A, GET L-A and GET L-B. Together, they remove over 20 million gallons of contaminated groundwater each day on average. Through the end of 2010, all groundwater extraction and treatment systems in OU-3 and OU-5 have treated a cumulative total of 107,000 million gallons of groundwater and removed more than 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminants. Western"
Just think about that. 850,000 pounds of chemical contaminates removed from the DRINKING WATER of surrounding communities. If you ask me, pollution on this level should be criminal. It's projected to take 200+ years to fully cleanup. Where's the concern over public health? Barely being discussed.
I've heard some people say that it's "all cleaned up" and "the water is totally safe". I'm skeptical. Sure, those systems are in place, and designed to extract known chemicals... But:
a) What's the error rate? Surely, some is let through.
b) What about the unknown chemicals? What in that froth of contaminated soil has yet to be identified as carcinogenic, neurotoxic, etc.? Surely some of that isn't targeted for removal in the filtration process?
...
Some whom I've spoken with doubt that industrial pollutants are the cause of the strange rise in auto immune disorders in the community. They generally seem pretty averse to the idea that a corporation could damage the environment in such a way. It's a weird "us and them" way of thinking... Any discussion of ecological damage is written off in their minds as a necessary evil for progress. I come from a background steeped in respect for science, engineering, and business yet I don't share that view.
I recommend "The Devil We Know" if you're skeptical about industrial pollutants [2].
[1] https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fus...
After a few friends retrieved spent (and unspent) mortar shells, it quickly was guarded and a project to clean up the site was initiated.
These fine folks have been following the closure, cleanup and build over of the facility for some time: https://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/aerojet-chino-...
For the low price of only $3.5M, you too can own a nice house on a toxic waste site: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2276-Celano-Ct-Chino-Hill...
In Satellite Beach, Florida, the contamination from Patrick AFB was discovered after a group of Satellite Beach High alumni realized they all developed cancer around the same time and decided to start digging. [https://pfasproject.com/2018/08/08/satellite-beach-florida-f...]
They dumped everything in a trench...not realizing there was an underground waterflow there. :/
This has made me super paranoid now of all water everywhere.
We've traveled all over the country and have personally encountered it everywhere -- from Oregon to New York to central Florida...it's all over the midwest, in the Great Lakes -- seems to be anywhere there's farming.
I'm not sure what you do for that, though -- not sure it can be filtered, and boiling just makes it worse as it's toxic when it's dead. I'm honestly more terrified of cyanobacteria than PFAS, and it's everywhere.
He reported, and I have no source aside from him, that JFK allows up to 10,000 gallons of jet fuel to leak into the ground. Per day. And he claimed that most airports with hydrant systems had similarly large allowances.
I'm amazed whenever I see this. (A) what makes it okay to just dump stuff in a ditch? (B) are these people really clueless that no leaching through soil occurs?
Lack of accountability. They did a calculation, and decided the risk of lawsuits several decades down the line is worth not paying to properly dispose their waste today.
Lord knows how much hazardous waste has been carelessly buried under orders from dogmatic maniacs obsessed with "winning" at all cost, including our future.
"To know if a filter is NSF certified for the removal of PFOA and PFOS look for NSF P473 or NSF Certified to Standard P473 on the product, packaging, or specifications. Two types of filters recommended are granular activated carbon (GAC) and reverse osmosis (RO) filters."
(https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/list-of-household-filters-appr...)
It would be incredibly naive to think dumping all these chemicals on the ground wouldn't cause some type of negative externality.
The contaminants discussed here are of an entirely different class, they are toxic at trace levels. Sea salt and rock salt are ubiquitous natural materials, if they were toxic at low levels plagues of disease would occur until animals evolved resistance to them.
Whether it's directly benign to humans is one thing, but the indirect effects are hard to account for.
https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/rainwater-...
Everything is an ecosystem. You can’t have wild growth without paying for it, and the people of the past 75 years have stolen our bright futures from us and stuck us with the bill. Your comment reminded me of just how fucked up everything is. I think the 21st century will be consumed by the efforts to clean up the giant mess the 20th century left us. Goodbye economic growth. They stripmined the timeline and left us nothing.
I moved into a new house last year near 2 closed down USAF military bases (known to have been previously contaminated by firefighter foam) and did a ton of research on the issue since the house water comes from a well (free water!). I ended up getting a professional water filtration system installed in our basement (carbon tanks, UV light filter, reverse osmosis). Cost me $5k+ for install and ~$1500 year to swap out the tanks and service the system. It's pricey but you can't put a price on clean water.
My uncle was station chief there for many years and recently died of complications after surgery to remove tumors. He was suffering back pain for a while and was diagnosed with spinal cancer. No one in the family was aware there was a cluster reported.
https://www.ewg.org/research/pfas-chemicals-contaminate-us-m...
Just to add some anecdotes. Two of my friends who lived in U.S. Air Force Bases where PFAS contamination was confirmed, had both of their firstborns suffer from congenital birth defects.
Which supports the study below published in 2014, though the issue was ONLY brought to light in 2018. Meaning the DoD waited 4 years.
Perfluorooctanoate Exposure and Major Birth Defects
And that's just one possible issue. You can't feasibly test for every possible exotic contaminant.
In my case, however, a pair of 48"x10" granular activated carbon filters (with auxiliary sediment filters, water softener, and UV light) have proven completely effective at removing PFAS from my water.
Are those backwashing filters with a head unit that contains a pump ? What level (micron) of filtration does just that unit achieve ?
Just curious ...
If you’re going to go down that road, better to just get carbon filter and R/O filtering setup.
Get an RO system and a water bottle.
Maybe we should save the good stuff like halon and PFAS foam for emergencies and use something more eco for training.
That being said, recently non-flourinated firefighting foams have been developed (based on some sugars IIRC), so there's hope these will be able to replace the old stuff.
I just recently found out the Shoreline Park in Mountain View used to be a landfill for most of bay area and SF. Today it is open to enjoy like it's some natural bird sanctuary.. yet there are pipes underground extracting methane 24x7 and I think I found a methane release valve last weekend right next to a jogging path... Can anyone confirm plz? => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq3CnXU5OtU
During the earliest events there in the 1980s, concertgoers seated on the lawn set it afire when trying to smoke!
(And, yes, it's misnamed. It's a theatre, not an amphitheatre.)
There are EPA Superfund sites all over the valley. One of the worst was across the street from the Ice Center and Spartan Stadium.
Can be filtered out of your drinking water with a reverse osmosis filter. If you live in the Bay Area its a useful thing to have, and if you're concerned about your tap water you can send a sample here: https://torrentlab.com/drinking-and-storm-water-quality-test...
Slightly related, but there is a big issue with new aircraft hangar fire suppression systems because of the regulation of foam now. Regulators don't want anyone to use foam but there isn't a better solution out there yet.
Active sites generally fall under the purview of an environmental permitting program, so there are dual problems that the level of rigor to which the operation is held varies by the permitting authority (state environment department or EPA depending) and that the military branches in general and it seems Air Force in particular have drug their feet and, in general, gotten away with the least effort possible to satisfy their permit obligations (which are virtually always negotiable with the permitting authority, a negotiating process in which the Air Force holds a large portion of the power).
Other common groundwater contamination concerns around Air Force installations include jet fuel (often leaked from underground tanks and piping and may have gone undetected for decades) and residues of high explosives resulting from munitions testing and disposal. Smaller groundwater plumes may result from photographic processing chemicals and solvents used in cleaning aircraft parts. Generally all of these will be grouped into one or more "operable units" or OUs for administrative purposes and a series of reports issued as the contamination is characterized and a remediation program is designed and implemented. Depending on the regulating agency, these reports may be more or less difficult to find. For DERP FUDS it usually requires a FOIA to the correct USACE HQ wih a lot of followup as they frankly don't seem to have their records in order internally and take a while to find them - the FOIA officers are generally helpful but will keep coming back to you needing more info/clarification as they try to track down the right OU and reports. Fortunately I have never had them ask for a fee, even when their "secure file transfer" solution was broken for months and they had to mail me burned CDs.
Permitting processes and the DERP program both require public information meetings and a (modest) public outreach program. If you live near a military site, pay attention to notices in the newspapers and posted around the community for these meetings, and contact the public information office of the relevant military branch to inquire. The public meetings often include a surprising amount of technical detail on the concern and remediation plans, and because they are also attended by permitting officials represent an opportunity to put some city council meeting-style public pressure on the process.
