Yes, in a theoretical world, you could set up your own crypto authority and sign your own device repairs, assuming Apple were to build support for this. But if you brick your CA you’d brick your laptop if it ever needed repairs someday, which would leave you thousands of dollars poorer and in need of a laptop.
I trust Apple to run this CA and gate access to it _far_ more than I trust my personal self to do so. This security improvement will make me safer, as well as my non-engineer coworkers, and my mom.
This is a foolish statement.
Any bad actors with power can just add themselves to that subset of humanity - this is the same reason we dont add software special backdoors that only special sets of humanity can unlock.
This analogy doesn't make sense.
The alternative to adding backdoors is to not add backdoors (which is safer). The alternative to restricting hardware repairs to a subset of humanity is not restricting them at all (which is more dangerous).
Sometimes I think people vastly overestimate the skills and powers of the security services...
And the analogy to backdoors doesn't work, because for the user who isn't a crypto-analyst (and, tbh, even for those) this system is almost tautologically safer than not having it.
It bears mentioning that security of personal computers has vastly improved over the last decade or so, both Windows and Mac. It's ridiculous to disparage their efforts as useless.
And this is assuming you trust apple to inspect their parts closely. Their computers are still made in china. Why couldn't the chinese governnent coerce their suppliers to commit sabotage?
Also, when was the last time your Mom was the target of a hardware attack? Is she a foreign diplomat or intelligence officer?
I don't see how this removes any choices. It's still possible to buy other non-Apple hardware that doesn't have those restrictions.
If security was the primary concern, Apple would sell this as a separate model variant (manufactured in the USA) and charge a lot more for it.
Gays, minorities, journalists, dissidents, whistleblowers etc are all being targeted and jailed in many countries in the world. And in China it's entire swathes of the general public. And so much of this is directly attributable to lax privacy and security.
And I don't know believe that there is a huge market for cheaper repairs of Macs. Most people are still just going to local service providers who are authorised by Apple anyway. Otherwise getting hold of parts can be difficult.
If society as a whole constantly falls for the "security" argument then it won't be long before every aspect of your life is controlled by some central entity.
I feel obligated to bring up that timeless quote again: "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."
In fact chances are, most third-party repair shops are going to end up finding such an employee who's prepared to authorize a bunch of additional repairs for a little extra cash on the side.
Also, Louis Rossmann on Youtube one of the most vile, deeply corrosive personalities out there and his audience enjoys the bashing of Apple left and right. He has essentially marketed himself as Anti-Apple and his message is always "Apple is Evil".
He points out bad engineering/manufacturing in $2000+ laptops and I agree with his insights regarding how Apple makes it seem like the customer/user is wrong to cover their bad engineering.
Ala -- the antenna is fine, it's your fault you have bad reception. You are not holding the phone correctly
This is the RDF in action.
You might trust Apple but do you trust your government to not pressure Apple? Apple cares about making money, not its users.
Hardware attacks are virtually a non issue now. Pretending this is about security is just nonsense.
The correct way to handle this, however, is to offer to sign the customer's key for a given unit or order, with a mechanism for succession (i.e. simultaneously sign a successor key, and expire the current one).
In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement.
Using unlicensed repair stores has been the only choice.
Now that this option is gone, it will surely be harder to justify owning a MacBook as a business device.
Article 3 of the directive [1] states your rights quite clearly: "Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods."
If the seller does not meet these guidelines (possibly enacted in local law, but this has to be within the framework set by the directive) you can annul the contract and get your money back. For a laptop, 3 weeks seems unreasonable and with significant inconvenience.
The bigger point is that Apple seems to be totally in denial of European consumer law and actively seeks to hinder timely and convenient repairs. That is one that should be addressed at a European level. They allow stores to sell their product without being able to offer the minimum warranty. Via EU-law that's a problem for the seller, not so much Apple, but the EU could argue that it's Apple that is setting the agenda and hindering stores to give proper warranty.
[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...
For example, if you're selling notebooks, you must be able to provide notebook parts and repair as well for the products you sell.
Context: Imagine dropping your macbook and the screen breaks; You must be able to get it replaced for a "reasonable" price and you must be able to buy a replacement screen to repair it yourself. The seller must provide these services (either by delegating it to a repair or repairing it themselves)
From what I understand they want to protect their brand by building quality and repairing with quality as well.
Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do.
A week ago I was in the apple store in London, a guy next to me bought one of their new flagships through o2 and the phone's buttons weren't usable, he was told by o2 he has to wait 3 weeks on a replacement, so he tried his luck by going to the apple store. He was told that there is nothing they can do and that he has to do it through o2, which I personally find it appalling, having paid a big chunk of money and getting a defective product, which is under warranty and all that and being told that they can't fix it or replace it and you have to go through the person you bought it from to replace it. I felt like their service isn't going to do any justice to me if anything is to happen to my iphone, watch, airpods, macbook.
Not to say that i live in Greece as well where the waiting times to get something repaired is around 3 weeks as well, I managed to fix my own keyboard on my mac watching youtube videos and ordering the toolkit from amazon in 2 hours... they wanted 3 weeks, and looking at it, to an experienced engineer with the right tools would take about 2 mins to fix it.
They need to invest in their repairs worldwide if they want to keep their customer base imho.
> Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do.
That is not the problem. The problem is many of us do not accept the world in which everything, down to the hardware we touch is just licensed to us.
Some of us live to hack, crack and diy. We are jealous of the right to repair, tinker and transform.
The phone companies might try to push him into the return process so that they can sell the phone that would have replaced it to another customer, but they aren’t supposed to, and will change their mind when you push back and tell them your rights.
This is one of the reasons why I only buy my Apple products from Apple, their service is far better than this, although has declined in recent years.
What's more valuable to the consumer? A device that doesn't work and cannot reasonably be repaired or a device that was repaired with knock off parts and inexperienced labor that still gets the job done?
To take an adage from farmers; "The best machine is one that can perform it's duties despite it's condition."
relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8&t=703s
Fortunately common iOS repairs (like a display replacement) can often be done on the same day. The situation for MacBooks is a lot worse however, with many days of just waiting for parts.
Come to think of it I seem to remember the Bible warning us about certain fruits in Genesis 3:3 - "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."
Having a pro device out of action for more than a week is just not acceptable. If it breaks, I want to have the replacement up and running ASAP. If Apple can then repair and refurbish the original at their own leisurely pace, fine. That will also put the pressure on cutting down on repair times and cost for Apple. They seem incentivized to milk their expensive care package a bit too much currently.
Anyway, my 2017 MBP keyboard is starting to become faulty. I've been dreading having to turn it in because I actually need this thing up and running. I'm actually considering permanently switching to a linux machine and then getting it repaired. After it comes back, I'll probably sell it.
My '15 MBP retina had it's keyboard and trackpad shit itself about 12 months after I purchased it. It was becoming apparent at the time that a) apple wouldn't repair it (they told me that I must have damaged it myself so they wouldn't do a warranty job, before even inspecting it) and b) they wanted to take the machine for diagnosis and repairs at the "local" apple centre (roughly 400km away at the time) which through experience I knew to take at least several weeks.
This was not a viable solution for me as it was a work machine, and any downtime was problematic. So I've permanently had my wired keyboard and mouse with me since.
Needless to say I've got an 8th gen i7 Dell on it's way in the mail now.
For anyone who thinks this is an abuse of the system, I don't feel guilty doing this if Apple takes weeks to replace a keyboard, doesn't offer a temporary replacement or do on-site repair the next business day. I have offered my local Apple reseller money for these services but they won't do it. Somehow they are OK with me buying a brand new device and returning it for every repair.
"We will have to take it in for repair, this will take at least 14 business days."
Yes, two Euros.
This change affects “display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board”. I could see wanting an alternate, after-market keyboard, but otherwise am happy to stick with Apple parts. The main hindrance, as others point out, seems to be for people in sparser areas with no authorized repair shop.
Given the lackluster upgrade options in the last 5+ years, I can see a lot of people trying to hang on to their next/last PC as long as possible. Now they'll have no options once Apple decides their system is done.
I find it disgusting that Apple labels my iPad 3 "vintage" and refuses to give it updates, not even browser updates or security patches. They cannot claim to be looking after this planet's interests or user interests by abandoning their hardware after only a pathetic 5 years. They need to step up and offer a solution to an e-waste problem they are creating in the first place.
Assuming that is continued/expanded in the future, that'll give you ~7 years or so of official hardware support after the model goes out of production instead of 5.
I do not in any way support locking down hardware, but most hardware will be pretty shot and not worth putting money into at 8 years or more down the line.
[1] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/xykkkd/why-americ...
But anecdotally, after many many years of disappointing experiences with independent repair shops, when I could finally afford repairs at the dealer, I was no longer disappointed.
It more or less is that way already, have you had a recent car in the shop? With the diagnostics and systems in all cars going more digital every day, there are lots of things a local independent mechanic can’t fix anymore. I’ve been pushed to the dealer with foreign and domestic brands alike.
They still can, by purchasing an older laptop or newer "business class" device. A 2011 Sandy-bridge Thinkpad is perfectly usable even today, and is serviceable in most aspects from battery, SATA/PCIe slots, aftermarket display, and even the CPU on some models.
> Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start.
Which is exactly why it's so important to have the freedom to repair. It's no longer a simple SSD swap that any end-user can perform themselves, now to do any such repairs you need specialized tools, knowledge of circuitry, and even a dedicated lab. For Apple to hinder these efforts is Apple turning otherwise perfectly serviceable parts into disposable junk that only they have the capacity to repair - it doesn't need to be like this.
> The main hindrance
What about the hindrance in being restricted in servicing and repairing something you paid for and own? Have you heard about John Deere and their practices?
The obvious tradeoff is that it is heavier and thicker than similar machines. Also the power brick is gigantic.
I still haven't found a laptop that has a trackpad anywhere was good as a Macbook. Still waiting.
I'm still waiting for this mythical huge market of people who want to tinker and repair everything themselves. It doesn't exist. It's a vocal minority on here, and nothing more.
Let's ignore that it actively discourages users (think students and kids) from tinkering with computer parts and learning, which was how I got into technology. It affects all non-Apple Authorized repair shops, which are currently able to take salvaged working parts from broken machines to provide fixes at a fraction of the cost.
Right now, Authorized repair shops are forced to buy parts directly from Apple at basically double the cost, so many do not have a large stock of newer or more rare parts on hand. Apple has moved towards selling entire assemblies and not individual parts - logic boards include CPUs, coolers, RAM, etc. So, if you have a busted USB port, you're getting all of that replaced and paying for it. Does your MacBook Pro have a busted keyboard key? Let's hope the heat didn't warp any of those warranty void stickers, because you're getting a new entire top half of the chassis, trackpad, and battery.
Even though those stickers are not legally binding, I'm about 98% sure they CAN be enforced through the service provider's contract with Apple. AASP are "permitted to deny service for any product that has been opened or modified by a customer, regardless of warranty, both for safety reasons and to avoid responsibility if the machine cannot be fixed.” Regardless of warranty. To get fair prices, AASPs return broken parts to Apple for recycling, so any aftermarket fixes mean the AASP gets the crazy price if they look the other way. It's in Apple's best interest to void an active warranty, and they have plenty of nit picky, obnoxious tests that are fully sanctioned by the company.
It isn't that you can't get a warrantied device repaired by a certified technician - it's that you can a device, regardless of warranty, repaired AT ALL. The AASP are the only ones that could use these special tools. They are punishing you even if you repair it successfully.
Imagine if you were completely unable to start your car because you took it to a non-certified auto shop for a timing belt. The new belt is fine, but it wasn't 'activated' by the manufacturer, and now no certified shop will touch the car because it's blacklisted. They won't even put a new certified belt on and activate it because to get the belt at a reasonable price, they have to send the entire engine back to the manufacturer with a ruined certified belt, and even then there would be a record of Shop X assisting with Y machines that failed the Certified Tool Test. Let's take a closer look at Shop X's replacement part submissions... Looks like this user replaced their wiper fluid with a slightly more blue wiper fluid. Warranty voided.
Locking out third party repairs means you do not own your computer - Apple is allowing you to use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwEInwvFbwk https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/18/linus-tech-tips-imac-pr...
I went for a Dell XPS, and while there are things I don’t like (primarily keyboard & trackpad) I’ve got used to them. (Keyboard still shits me).
But, when the motherboard & power adaptor died on me. A dell technician came to my house the next day, sat at my kitchen table and fixed it on the spot.
After being an Apple customer, my mind was blown!!
They also shipped a new charger. (The tech might have been able to just give me one, but I think the charger might have died shortly after the repair, details).
I will probably stay loyal with my iPhone, primarily for iOS (but my 6S serves me just fine, I have no need to upgrade). But I don’t think I will ever buy another MacBook.
After I switched to Linux / Thinkpad and only had to spend five minutes rather than an hour+ upgrading the hard drive, I wondered why I hadn't made the switch years ago [answer: brainwash].
Apple stores are for consumers like you and me. No large company is going to send an employee there. It’s likely the company has support contract with Apple or a 3rd party.
Beside you can just overnight your laptop to Apple for repairs anyway.
It's still worse than the best Dell etc can offer, but it hasn't taken up too much of my time. The number of necessary repairs is presently very high though.
(I only know about the Dell service in theory. There hasn't been a problem with any of the laptops, and when a server HDD fails I prefer that they just mail the new drive.)
Bunch of large enterprises do this and contract the service/management to people like IBM. Employees demand it and these days are likely to get Macs as an option.
I've been using a 2014 rMBP for the last 3 years at my job. Getting a Dell for my refresh next month. Dont want to keep fighting with MS Office on Mac anymore.
Dell came to my workplace during work hours, on a day's notice, 6 different times, to replace the GPU for free because it was under warranty.
I've had some bad experiences with Dell in the years since (their monitors have absolutely horrible firmware now so I can't recommend buying them anymore) but their warranty service was great then and is still pretty great now. Cross-ship RMA for things like monitors is a great perk.
I got the screen replaced for free at home after about one year (a failing contact in the hinges). I sent them a video recorded with my phone to demonstrate the problem. The technician came the next day.
I had to change the keyboard twice (an arrow key years ago and the left ctrl-shift keys died a few months ago). The customer service doen't replace keyboards but the replacement parts are cheap. I bought them on Amazon and looked at videos on YouTube to learn how disassemble and reassemble the laptop (a ZBook 15 first series.) I like that I can open it and replace RAM and disks, which I did. I could even replace CPU and GPU much like in desktops. OK, it's 3 kg and not slim, but it's worth the extra weight and size.
Never again.
Sent from my iPhone
I’m a normal guy who works in IT and does pretty much everything with my MBP. Work (Citrix, email, Office), play (Logic, Lightroom), development (Sublime, Chrome, the Terminal) ... I mean come on.
For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would have to be a legitimate alternative that does just what Apple does, but lets me repair my own [incredibly powerful, thin, built-like-a-slab-of-rock, trivial to keep up-to-date] laptop. That laptop would have to seamlessly sync my phone and watch, there would have to be superb Bluetooth in-ear wireless headphones available for this ecosystem ... it goes on and on. I’m all-in on the Apple ecosystem for a damned good reason and, while I may not love this approach to repairs, that does not make me an unwavering loyalist.
Don’t tell me that I can get this all with Linux and a Dell. You know I can’t.
At the beginning of this year I was in the market for a new personal laptop -- even though I got to keep a top end new MBP from my last job, I couldn't consider it reliable (and it hasn't been) so I got a ThinkPad X270. It ended up being a fantastic decision and I've never been happier with a laptop.
I switched my workstation at my job over to Arch Linux this week after not having run desktop Linux in roughly 10 years and the experience is _miles_ better already.
I'll continue to use iOS devices, but I am done with MacOS and Mac hardware forever.
Of you cannot play windows game on your linux box and you cannot get the same experience you have in the walled garden outside of it unless you change and adapt you devices.
I have a client with a Linux ecosystem and a single iphone, apple does not provide itunes for linux so making backup and generally dealing with the iphone required buying a second hand windows laptop specifically to deal with this because with each update of the iphone OS apple breaks previous compatibility with linux that had been added by enthusiasts.
I have a thinkpad running linux, it is cheaper, more powerful, thin (though this is not important), trivial to keep up-to-date, repairable, serviceable on site. I've set up a seamless sync for my computerphone which I use exclusively for phone calls, SMS and as a clock (no need for a gadget computerwatch that cannot even tell what time it is for 24h straight), lastly I do not use wireless headphones but I could if I wanted to.
I'm out of the apple prison-system for a damned good reason too, it's overhyped, very expensive, is often not compatible with hardware outside it (could it be a reason you're all in on the apple walled garden ?), does not allow me to do what I choose, engage in huge amount of tax evasion with significant social consequences, locks user in, relies on free software makes huge profit but doesn't donate back and it goes on and on.
What you describes here is nothing else than the existence of an impenetrable wall designed and built by apple to keep control and increase their profit, you choose to live inside the wall and I choose to live outside.
We, outsiders, like to think people choosing to live inside the wall do so because they are blinded not because they are evil as this is easier on us than riskig losing faith in humanity.
> Don’t tell me that I can get this all with Linux and a Dell. You know I can’t.
That's a feature, in every category of electronoic life I have multiple companies competing to provide me with nearly everything I want.
> For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would have to be a legitimate alternative that does just what Apple does, but lets me repair my own [incredibly powerful, thin, built-like-a-slab-of-rock, trivial to keep up-to-date] laptop. That laptop would have to seamlessly sync my phone and watch, there would have to be superb Bluetooth in-ear wireless headphones available for this ecosystem ... it goes on and on.
That whole paragraph sounds like an ad.
Every other laptop maker in existence lets you repair your own machine.
Lenovo and Dell make solid machines that are powerful and light. Microsofts are even supposed to be pretty good.
The fact that your Apple phone/watch syncs with fewer platforms seems to be a point against your phone and watch not a point in favor of your mac.
Do you really honestly believe that nobody on earth makes decent bluetooth headphones except for apple. Seriously BOSE makes bluetooth headphones.
So far legitimate criticisms include your iphone's playlists not syncing with a different laptop.
Just admit you're a fanboy.
I bought my last ever Apple product, an IPad v1 and was dismayed when less than 2.5 years later it stopped receiving OS updates. Its battery still lasts 20 hours and yet bugs in the browser makes it crash on so many modern web pages. I can get an Android tablet every year for $70 if I just want something I'm going to throw away.
We had one and upgraded for the reasons you mentioned, it couldn't cope with JavaScript heavy web sites. However even without the bugs I don't think it had the horsepower to handle the modern web, no amount of updates would have fixed that.
iOS 12 supports devices back to the iPhone 5s, so more than 5 years.
You're actually complaining that a consumer computing appliance you bought received OS updates for 6 years? And your proposed better alternative is buying a device that will probably never receive an OS update?
(I also use an iPhone for this reason.)
Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.
I had this experience with NEC 21 inch monitors, 2 different video card companies, and Matrox hard drives as just 4 companies off the top of my head. Yes, NEC FedExed me 70lbd 21 inch monitors over night. No idea what it cost them but the monitor cost me around $2500 in 1995, certainly comparible to an MBP.
Compare to Apple, they were going to service my MacbookPro and I was without it for 2 weeks. The only reason I was able to get by is I had just bought a new Windows laptop for VR so I'd have something to use while they serviced the MBP.
It made me wonder why they couldn't do it the way those other companies did. Send me the new machine, I'll transfer my data, wipe the old machine, send it back. Even if my old machine is unusable (and therefore I can't get the data off) I'd still prefer the instance service I use to get. Just give me a new machine, factor that into the cost.
The fact that they didn't do as good a job as those other companies was disappointing.
On the plus side, most brands don't have stores in the majority of non major cities. Apple Does. So they're ahead of a lot of brands in that regards.
You can get repairs usually done same day or within 1 or 2 days in the worst case if you can walk into an Apple Store in most cases (with some exceptions obviously) - for both iPhone and Mac.
EDIT: The comment below points out they only have stores in 22 countries. I agree in some regards that is low but I would suggest it is probably high compared to many brands for not requiring a 2 week turnaround as you had above.
Also the other downside e.g for iphones is that apple is not selling genuine screens... you broke your screen on your $1500 iphone? cause thats how much it costs in the EU... you will get a knockoff screen if you want to get it done in a day, if you want you can wait 4-5 weeks for them to get back to you, unless you live in london, paris, berlin etc.
Regarding the XPS with 6 cores, 16GB ram, 512 ssd it still comes in closer to 2K you could bank the extra 1800 and use part of it to have it fixed if you dropped it.
The surface laptop 2 seems to start at around 1K doesn't appear to be the in the same ballpark although with integrated graphics, a lesser display, and lesser processor it also doesn't look to be in the same class.
edit: I should also point out, I've never bought AppleCare.
I have had a few run-ins with Apple over the years. Mostly semi-positive. These have been where I've had to take my main work machine in for repair and they've quoted me 14 days, but then turned the repair around in a few days. They've also often thrown in unrelated free stuff too. Last time when I took my Macbook Pro in for the free screen replacement (due to delamination) they also replaced the battery (it was bulging slightly apparently, I'd not noticed) and top case (the trackpad click wasn't reliable), totally free and not required (years out of warranty).
The one case that really sticks in my mind though was when I took a 13" Macbook (pro I think) in to have the keyboard replaced (the trackpad stuck). It was a US model with a US keyboard that I'd bought off the company I used to work for, and I figured that while they were replacing the keyboard they may as well put a UK keyboard on. The Apple reps on the phone, then in store both said this was a reasonable request (as I also thought) and so I left it with them.
I get a call a day or so later saying that they couldn't do the repair because "they had to replace components like for like". Bear in mind this was a paid for repair, not under warranty. I was willing to pay for the parts and labour. Apple confirmed that the new UK keyboard would work, but they weren't allowed to repair the laptop with a different keyboard. Nothing I could do could change their mind, I'd hit a complete brick wall. No keyboards could magically fall through the cracks in the back room and no favours could be done. As reasonable a request that all involved continued to think this was, they wouldn't do anything.
They even called around local apple dealers and none of them would do it either because they were all constrained by Apple's back-office systems.
In the end I bought a genuine, brand-new top case (keyboard, trackpad, integrated battery) off eBay and did the work myself, it worked just fine. No idea where it came from originally.
I guess this shattered any remaining idea I had that Apple was anything other than a machine. The operations side made so efficient by Tim Cook is also incredibly inflexible and as soon as you stray outside the bounds of what it has accounted for you hit a wall. As friendly as the geniuses and store employees are, Apple is not your friend.
I can find plenty of reasons to dump on Apple, but I do believe their commitment to customer privacy is pretty strong (even before considering that they are a large corporation).
And I say that even though I don't believe, say, their commitment to open standards (it's historically been enthusiastic in areas where they have been behind and then, if they claw themselves out of that particular hole, the commitment is mysteriously sloughed off). The privacy issue, in particular in the Cook era, has been more consistent (if imperfect) even when I would not think it needed to be for business reasons.
Again, I'm not trying to paint apple with some broad "good guy" brush, just talking about this one issue.
I’m also not sure what the problem with Apple keeping iMessage encryption keys on their servers is. The article I read about it said that Signal also uses centralized encryption key servers and nobody ever complains about Signal.
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/apple-fighting-privacy-imessag...
I’m all for privacy, but there are ways to offering both privacy and repairability.
> If you don't want that feature you can buy one of their other machines -- or someone else's.
But this information is only coming to light after the products have been put into the market. Apple don’t share this information before you purchase their stuff. What percentage of people who purchase their products know beforehand that the only people who will be a Lee to repair their laptop is Apple or who Apple deem fit?
Not for much longer I think.
If they show you can earn 10% more revenue in an area with slim margins why wont others follow in their footsteps.
The only real solution is to make this strategy illegal.
It might be now (or not, we can't know). But what's your guarantee for the future?
The what amounts to hand wringing over Apple, mostly gets people flustered, without actually changing anything, but perhaps the direction of a few electrons somewhere.
How do I get other people to agree with me without talking about why I despise them?
There is nothing immoral about attempting to cause monetary damages to bad actors.
Actually there is this quote, forgot by whom, saying that 20th century saw a shift of power from politicians towards corporation, the largest advance in democracy, and corporation using their newly acquired power to protect themselves from the advance in democracy.
Using your logic, why should anyone change anything when they can just run away from their problems?
Apple just gave me yet another reason not to buy a new MBP and to keep milking my old ones along.
So this isn't a problem limited to Apple, apparently most manufacturers decided that devices need to be as unfixable as possible.
Which is what Apple has been doing to their laptop batteries, for years.
Blows my mind.
I found a 3rd party repair shop down the road. Took it in, they did some diagnostics on it while I was standing there and confirmed it was a harddrive cable issue...they said it was a common issue for these models. Quoted me $100 (mostly for labor) and said I could wait or come back tomorrow...I decided on the latter. On my way home, they called and said it was ready for pickup. They said the cable was under warranty and bring it back if I have any more issues...fingers crossed it has been running great ever since.
I really enjoy my macbook, I had wanted one for years and finally saved enough money to purchase one in 2012 (I believe it was about $1200). I also made upgrades to the HD (changed to SSD) and upgraded the RAM as I didn't have the $ to buy all the upgrades at time of purchase but knew I wanted to make it better over the years. It has allowed me to work on iOS and use a great OS while still have access to UNIX bash. That said, I don't think I would buy the latest model...probably out of principal (I disagree with the high cost, the inability to upgrade the machine and the gimmicks being added rather than making it a Pro device). I might try to find a 2015 model the day my 2012 dies but I don't really think I could justify a $3000 purchase on an item that I can only take back to the manufacturer for a solution...should a problem ever arise.
I doubt any of this matters to you, just wanted to share my experience.
[0] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzp7ny/tractor-ha...
p.s., in addition, a significant proportion of Deere's manufacturing is now overseas / outsourced -- but of course they still trade on their historical image as an American working-class icon.
It goes further than just Apple's hardware products: some people prefer to build "Hackintosh" systems (OSX running on non-Apple hardware) and a common problem is dealing with wifi-adapter whitelists. Why would you ever want to consider using an OS that imposes such arbitrary restrictions on you?
I moved to Fedora on my desktop since then, but I do miss macOS often.
It's probably to do with the T2 chip which among other things handles full-disk encryption and TouchID. It seems extremely likely that this is for security reasons.
If I had the choice, I would choose security over the ability to tinker with my hardware any day.
Although there's plenty of reasons to critisise MacOS restrictions, the WiFi hardware issue is not one of Apple's faults.
And Apple is betting that the second is more important. This isn't a black/white issue. It's which shade of grey you prefer.
Apple makes good profit with apple store repairs and wants to prevent repairs from happening outside their grasp to make more profit.
Security is designed against a threat model, the vast majority of user do not have to defend against "malevolent third party repair shop planting hacked hardware during repairs". The main culprit for this kind of attack is US governement agencies engaging in interdiction (intercepting hardware during shipping to alter it) not third party repair shops (and IIRC apple works with those US agencies).
Apple is instead purposely trying to make it more difficult to repair their devices.
This is evidenced because they ate lobbying against right to repair laws.
What possible, non bad faith reason could apple have for opposing people's right to repair their own property?
They have clearly set their direction of travel, so I hold out no hope of ever owning another Cheese Grater with similar attention to detail of how upgrades are enabled.
Since the third party check is software based, it's theoretically possible to write a piece of software that could either overwrite the flag on the T2 chip or man-in-the-middle spoof the return value to relevant applications.
EDIT:
I'm also curious to find out whether it's the OS or EFI that's performing the check. Because if it's Mac OS, the easy "hack" fix would be to use an alternate OS such as Windows or Linux that doesn't care about the T2 chip. But I guess that would defeat the purpose of buying a Macbook Pro in the first place.
Also, now that I think about it, if the check is in EFI then you're kinda screwed since you can't really patch it preemptively or man-in-the-middle it without booting an OS first...
...No wait, that's why projects like rEFInd exist. I guess someone could write a custom EFI manager that would bypass the check. Just install rEFInd first before replacing parts.
Seems that this is super hackable and is just a matter of time until we are able to spoof the flag.
The T2 starts the boot process and verifies the integrity of the system (including OS) and you can't flash the T2 without a digital signature from Apple.
Unless someone finds a serious flaw in the system, or one of Apple's signing keys is leaked, I don't see how you'd circumvent it.
Among other things, it's responsible for the early boot process; it performs firmware and OS verification and can stop the boot process if it thinks things don't look right.
Well crap. There goes my ideas.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3290415/apple-mac/the-...
Why does used Apple hardware command a premium, even years later? Is this really come down to status?
I don't think I need to discuss the anti-user features that Apple does. This crowd is more than aware.
If everything that has happened since SJ passed away had happened within only one or two years, fewer people would defend them.
At this point, if you're younger than 20 years old, you just figure Apple built its good reputation despite all the problems.
So these days when Apple does something unpleasant, you get all the arguments that start off "well, Apple has always [had some recent flaw]" or "well, Apple has never [had some old positive attribute]"
Apple's reputation has indeed still suffered lately, but many older users are silently giving up, and many newer users don't know any better. I think financially, they're fairly free to do what they want now without massive consumer backlash.
This isn't to say the components are trash, but if you removed the cachet of the brand, and the lock in afforded by OSX and iOS, you wouldn't see nearly the current stupidity.
He goes into the poor practices they use in manufacturing in general that literally every other manufacturer gets right. They might use under-sized capacitors to save room on the board. The first "unibody" they advertised had two aluminum parts glued together. Some of their repairs for recall-level issues amounted to burning the board, which masks the problem and kicks the can down the road until your warranty runs out. They actively fight your right to repair.
I like how their products look and work, but they really make unreliable products that look and feel premium with substandard engineering, overcharge, perform shockingly shoddy first party repair and generally try to shift blame to customers.
So, for the engineering, you'd want to get AppleCare.. a very expensive extended warranty, on an already overpriced machine, where they will give you refurbished boards/computers, using their own often highly questionable repair tactics, like placing rubber over things to push it harder onto the board instead of re-soldering, or baking the board to mask problems.
MKBHD explains the issue pretty well here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndphYju6PVM
tl;dr Apple produces craptons of stuff, if just 0.01% of it fails, it's thousands of devices - and those users jump to social media to bitch about it, making it seem like a huge number of devices is affected.
None of them upgrade their iOS firmware. Even grandmas know not to click "update".
BTW thanks for the UI dark patterns Apple assholes.
Living outside of the US, using Mac products purchased in the US means you have to go to third-party repair shops. Last week I took my 1-year old, $2,500 MBP to an Apple store in Istanbul, only to find out that Applecare doesn't work here, and a replacement screen would cost me $650 (thanks to super high import taxes). Tomorrow I'm taking it to a 3rd-party repair shop where the repair, with what is likely a counterfeit or stolen screen, will cost $400. I'm considering just buying a used Dell instead, but I hate Linux on the desktop.
MS have been improving the WSL/Windows Interop quite a bit. I find that for things like scripting, text file manipulation and connecting to Linux servers, WSL works fine.
Additionally, I know I can deactivate them by jumping through a couple of hoops, but that's not the point.
Running a "virtual Mac" in a VM is even easier.
I don't know of a company on this planet who is self repairing Macs.
I bought a 2015 DELL XPS 13 (9343) Developer Edition with Ubuntu. Ubuntu 16.04 has worked very poorly on it from the start. The installer crashed and I had to reinstall. Then the wifi was very slow. It would frequently lock up on resume. Hardware video decoding would occasionally crash and switch to software decoding which is choppy and eats battery power. The touchpad registered clicks while typing. One time the wifi suddenly stopped working after an update. Each of these problems was mostly solved by spending a few hours researching and running various commands as root. Some were fixed by updates after a few weeks. The latest bug is that right-clicking on the taskbar (panel? dash?) does not show any popup menu. So the only way to add buttons for launching programs is to make text files on the desktop with a special format.
I'm sick of the bugs in my Linux laptop. I'm about to get a Mac again.
So what's freer? A company that controls all aspects of their customers use of their products? Or a company that is restricted from such practices?
I can't tell if your post is sarcastic, glib, factual... So I think you were too terse here. Your meaning is not obvious.
I don't want to run Windows either... Linux is also questionable.
Maybe I'll just get a hackintosh or something.
They were borderline impossible to even open.
Now though they are becoming less and less developer-friendly. I already replaced my desktop — it used to be Mac Pro, now it is a custom Linux box. There are not that many alternatives to Macbooks, but if Apple will continue this kind of politics, I’ll change my laptop as well. And price has nothing to do with that.
Slight damage needing a few cents worth of caps replaced? Yeah that will be a full board swap. $900 please, oh and we don’t keep that main board in stock (cause Apple doesn’t let us) so it will be a week before we can do the swap...
I don’t mind paying a little extra, I do mind getting fucked over.
Now it does look like this software is only about the pairing of the components (main board, Touch ID, screen...) so component level repair should be fine as long as the cpu or the T2 doesn’t pop, so it’s not completely the end of the world but Apple are taking the piss now.
It’s not about the cost. It’s about the inability for anyone but who Apple chooses to be able to fix your hardware.
First grab attention of people on how this is gonna affect them, then enlarge on how apple makes huge profits, out of tax evasion, which impact well being of people around the world, also mention how their devices are made out of forced labour and degrading work conditions, and remind every other scandal.
In this case, each HW subsystem probably has its own unique ID which is hashed together; replacing one invalidates the hash and requires Apple to re-sign the system's "provisioning profile" to pass power-on tests.
Lenovo T480S still has some user-replaceable parts (RAM, SSD) and is only a little heavier than X1 Carbon.
Apologies for the cynism, but isn't this pretty much the mainstream security model since at least the advent of smartphones?
And to all those that have moaned about the Linux desktop, I recently upgraded my ssd on my x260. End to end - circa 2.5 hours (a lot of that hands off). Fresh install of Fedora WS, with all packages and home directory restored, back to full productivity. No dicking around with drivers or playing "50 click-through install wizards".
I can't help but wonder, is that even possible on Windows or OS X?
Edit: typo
I kicked off Windows update in the background and it chugged away with no prompting. I will admit this took a while but only because the ISO I have is Windows 10 RTM from 2015. It would likely have been quicker with a more up-to-date ISO with a later build.
The thing is it all depends on the hardware. If you're using more esoteric kit then you're likely to have a few more speedbumps regardless of OS.
These so-called security chips give me mixed feelings.
They might improve the security of the average consumer, but they also create more barriers for anyone that wants to tinker with their setup.
At least if your computer has something related to one of these names: AMD, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Wave Systems Corp, Digital Management, Inc., Cisco, Lenovo, Infineon, Juniper Networks, Fujitsu, etc.
These are the member of the consortium Trusted Computing Group[1] who pushed for Trusted Computing[2] through hardware or software.
Do you remember the Palladium fiasco (now Next Generation Secure computing Base[3]) ? The TCPA (Trusted Computing Platform Alliance) ? This was the beginning and it happened in the late 1990's/early 2000's.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing_Group
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing
[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...
Unfortunately, his store just caught on fire yesterday.
When it rains, it pours. Poor Louis.
Service software for a lot of other consumer hardware (printers, scanners, cameras, etc.) can be found online if you search hard enough.
It’s not the owner of the device that Apple doesn’t trust. I wonder if there has been any major instances of people other than the owner of an Apple device trying to get into it? Maybe the CEO of iFixit can think of one?
But "evil maid" attacks are a pretty routine occurance in China, and having hardware that is resistant to that would be very interesting. I don't know enough about hardware to really know if they can lock everything down far enough that it's impossible to physically mess with it. It would be interesting if you could verify whether it has been messed with using an iPhone that has been at your side.
But I'm not an Apple user anyway, so this doesn't really effect me anyway :)
I found a place selling the display unit, which I replaced, for a fraction of the cost of having apple repair it.
I imagine this is to cut down on the number of Apple computers repaired with bootleg parts, then either resold to Apple, or brought in for warranty repairs, but stopping legit DIYer from repairing their hardware is a pretty terrible side effect.
EDIT TO ADD: More likely, the security chip verifies the hardware wasn't tampered with, so it needs special software to update its checksum.
I have a collection of some 20+ classic Macs, all of which I have performed some degree of hardware replacements/repair on. No way I'd have access to some Apple "authorized repair technician" services as an enthusiast collector who just likes old computers.
Then there's the family members and friends whose computers I fix as a favor -- guess they can shell out $hundreds, instead of buying a cheap replacement part and having it installed for free, right? Assuming Apple even still produces the respective component! :\
I've nearly replaced every damn part but the motherboard in it at this point, and its still cheaper to own than a new macbook.
My T460 sadly seems to have gone the apple direction. I don't want to buy a new $1K laptop every few years just because a small part broke or it needs a battery replacement, that's a ridiculous waste.
The one case that really sticks in my mind though was when I took a 13" Macbook (pro I think) in to have the keyboard replaced (the trackpad stuck). It was a US model with a US keyboard that I'd bought off the company I used to work for, and I figured that while they were replacing the keyboard they may as well put a UK keyboard on. The Apple reps on the phone, then in store both said this was a reasonable request (as I also thought) and so I left it with them.
I get a call a day or so later saying that they couldn't do the repair because "they had to replace components like for like". Bear in mind this was a paid for repair, not under warranty. I was willing to pay for the parts and labour. Apple confirmed that the new UK keyboard would work, but they weren't allowed to repair the laptop with a different keyboard. Nothing I could do could change their mind, I'd hit a complete brick wall. No keyboards could magically fall through the cracks in the back room and no favours could be done. As reasonable a request that all involved continued to think this was, they wouldn't do anything.
They even called around local apple dealers and none of them would do it either because they were all constrained by Apple's back-office systems.
In the end I bought a genuine, brand-new top case (keyboard, trackpad, integrated battery) off eBay and did the work myself, it worked just fine. No idea where it came from originally.
I guess this shattered any remaining idea I had that Apple was anything other than a machine. The operations side made so efficient by Tim Cook is also incredibly inflexible and as soon as you stray outside the bounds of what it has accounted for you hit a wall. As friendly as the geniuses and store employees are, Apple is not your friend.
Sounds like it could be pretty useful, but no particular reason why to prevent authenticated users from disabling it if desired.
