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0 pointsclaudius7y ago0 comments

> Is the EU going to fine ARM next for having a monopoly on mobile CPUs?

Having a monopoly or being in a dominant position is not the problem. If ARM starts a pizza business and requires everyone who wants to buy mobile CPUs to also order pizzas exclusively from them, then this would be an equally-fineable abuse of a dominant market position and the EU would almost certainly step in.

As it stands, ARM doesn’t force others to buy pizzas exclusively from ARM PIZZA PLACE and hence doesn’t abuse its dominant market position in one market (mobile CPUs) to support its position in another market (pizzas).

Google, on the other hand, uses its dominant position in the "licensable mobile operating systems" market to support its position in the "internet search" and "browsers" market together with anticompetitive behaviour forcing its licensees to exclusively use the Google-approved version of Android.

0 comments

repolfx7y ago

You can use Android and make a phone that searches Bing and uses your own app store. Look at how Amazon did it.

Most phone makers don't because customers prefer the Google services, but that's not Google's fault. They have provided OEMs with options - options they didn't need to give anyone, apparently, given that non-licensable operating systems like iOS aren't being whacked the same way.

The most Google can do is give away their OS as open source and let people do what they want with it. If they then sell a bundle of extra proprietary stuff on top, stuff that customers want, that can't possibly be more problematic than making everything proprietary.

After all, Apple doesn't even let third party devs from the app store take over the default mapping app: map links always open in Apple Maps regardless of user preference. For the longest time they wouldn't even let apps that competed with their own be developed at all. On Android you can replace the dialer and even the home screen.

I do understand why people are defending the EU here: they like its ideology and vision of the future. But trying to claim Android is some sort of market abuse when Apple's own approach apparently isn't just defies basic logic.

cmsj7y ago

I understand that you can look at this in a way that makes it seem like Apple's tight control over iOS is equivalent to Google's tight control over Android, but there are some key differences:

a) Android has market share dominances (likely around 75% in Europe in 2018)

b) iOS is not made available for other companies to use

You could make arguments that iOS behaves unfairly to third party developers and end users, and there are some decent arguments to be made there, but none of them are relevant to antitrust law because a) means there is no market dominance to abuse with, and b) means there are no competitors to be abused.

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You said "Most phone makers don't [skip Google services] because customers prefer the Google services, but that's not Google's fault". I think this gets to the heart of the disconnect between your stated position, and the legal reality here (IANAL though).

If Google's services are supreme because of user choice, then Google should require no legal arm-twisting to push those services onto devices.

Instead, what has happened is that Google has over-reached with its Android services contracts (one example - if you want to use Google services on one Android phone, you can't make a second Android phone that uses your own services), and that is what the EU is tackling here.

rusk7y ago

Fantastically lucid and cogent summary. I regret that I have but one upvote to give.

repolfx7y ago

You know that Samsung has their own app store, right? By your explanation that wouldn't be possible because they also ship the Google Play store. But it is. Samsung replace many other apps too. What Google requires is that their services are available, not that others aren't.

The different stories people are telling here about why Google is "abusive" don't correlate with the realities of how Android licensing actually works.

Also since when is 75% market dominance? 75% is popular but that's still a quarter of the population successfully choosing an alternative.

1 more reply

yani7y ago

- by requiring mobile manufacturers to pre-install Google Search and Google Chrome browser and requiring them to set Google Search as default search service on their devices, as a condition to license certain Google proprietary apps;

- by preventing manufacturers from selling smart mobile devices running on competing operating systems based on the Android open source code;

- by giving financial incentives to manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-install Google Search on their devices.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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repolfx7y ago

You can use Android and make a phone that searches Bing and uses your own app store. Look at how Amazon did it.

cmsj7y ago

I understand that you can look at this in a way that makes it seem like Apple's tight control over iOS is equivalent to Google's tight control over Android, but there are some key differences:

a) Android has market share dominances (likely around 75% in Europe in 2018)

b) iOS is not made available for other companies to use

---

If Google's services are supreme because of user choice, then Google should require no legal arm-twisting to push those services onto devices.

rusk7y ago

Fantastically lucid and cogent summary. I regret that I have but one upvote to give.

repolfx7y ago

The different stories people are telling here about why Google is "abusive" don't correlate with the realities of how Android licensing actually works.

Also since when is 75% market dominance? 75% is popular but that's still a quarter of the population successfully choosing an alternative.

1 more reply

yani7y ago

- by preventing manufacturers from selling smart mobile devices running on competing operating systems based on the Android open source code;

- by giving financial incentives to manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-install Google Search on their devices.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse