Ask HN: Chances for Restarting a Career in CS @ 30+ ? ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7997624 )
after reading all the answers and recommendations, i decided to study CS in 2015.
it was quite challenging in every sense: time/money management, high drop-out rates (~80% fail or stop studying cs at my university), lack of math skills - school was far far away.
now, i finished it and i can say, i definitely don't regret it. it sharpened my mind and changed my mindset in a positive way. i've got absolutely no problems finding job offers (mainly as consultat or junior software engineers (i.e. IBM)) although i am now in my mid-thirties.
thank you, hn community
It was fun and challenging competing with top computer science students. In the long run, my organizational skills, focus, determination and world experience outweighed their raw brainpower and better memory.
It's an ultramarathon, not a sprint.
As impressive as your achievement is, I'm equally impressed that Google finally started addressing their perceived ageism problem.
I applied to a bunch of places and only Google seemed to perceive the whole package instead of myopically focusing on my recent education or last job. The whole process was much smarter than any other company in the interview cycle.
You see why people criticize the orange site for worshiping corporate a bit too much?
Great. Would love to hear more of the story.
* Start assignments as soon as they are given out. Stupid, right?
* Don't be shy about asking lots of questions. Don't be egotistical or afraid about asking for clarification.
* Build personal relationships with the professors and TAs. They are there to help. This is not an adversarial relationship. Show genuine passion for the material.
* Find real-world analogies or applications of the theory. An intuitive understanding is far more important memorization. It is also far more motivational. By seeing how a technique can be used to solve a real problem, the value becomes tangible.
* Be curious. You are there to learn, which means digging beyond the provided material. So many students are sadly focused on the grade or assignment, not on the learning.
I could probably write a book about this...
Edit: formatting
Did you do all classes online or did you go in person for some / all?
Did you work in technology previously?
Harvard Extension is a bargain compared to most colleges. $1500-$2500 for most 4 credit classes. Don't tell those smart college students that you are getting the same class for less than half the price. I tried the online thing (Coursera, edX, Udemy, etc.) but was never as motivated as competing against real students in a real class with deadlines that have consequences. Fear of failure is a great motivator :)
> Did you do all classes online or did you go in person for some / all?
It was a mix. The online classes were more time efficient. The person classes built rewarding personal relationships with faculty and older students.
> Did you work in technology previously?
Yes, was primarily self taught. Only had access to a lousy community college in my teens. Turned me off school then.
Some undergraduate and graduate programs enable Extension students to attend Harvard College or GSAS classes. I don't remember the requirements/restrictions, but look up "special student" status on the HES website for details.
http://scpd.stanford.edu/admissions/apply-and-enroll/master%...
https://newatlas.com/georgia-tech--graduate-computer-science...
While some remote students have been able to build quality relationships with professors, it is far easier if you are local.
Is there a reason you chose to do the bachelors program over the masters?
[0] https://www.extension.harvard.edu/academics/undergraduate-de...
I am nearly 40 and most of the developers I have worked with in the past 10+ years have always been older than me (aside from college new hires). They have also been 20-40% female. I have spent this time working in the Westlake, Irving, Plano technology corridor of north DFW.
I would like to hear what kind of demographics people encounter by geographic location. I always hear about age and sex bias online, but I simply don't see it in my area.
Established companies with good work-life balance, solid benefits, and internal advancement opportunities are much closer to your experience.
1 - Edit because I've been hammered for saying this before. Many studies have shown significantly increased financial, business, and physical risk taking in men. That's the type I'm referring to.
From my experiences a lot of SV's ageism is not really that they won't hire older workers on principle, it is just that most of their worker are young due to local conditions and like attracts like. By 'local conditions' I mostly mean cost of living, everyone I know who has lived in SV moved away when they got older and wanted to start a family.
BUT, given that resources like https://teachyourselfcs.com/ are available for free why should I waste money and time and energy on courses of a probable lesser quality, at least at my local university.
The way I see it the problem is not the education itself but your credentials or reputation in front of a possible employer.
So I noted down 3 ideas for myself:
- build an Open Source reputation, by own projects and contributions - a stellar github account
- get good at competitive programming - win kaggle competitions, hackerrank, top coder etc.
- get a CS degree
As a sysadmin with tons of experience (rhcsa and aws certified by end of year) I'm tempted to just give up my studies and go work remote somewhere in a developing country since I love to travel. Though I remind myself an education is invaluable and that my university alumni is connected and full of prestige, I just imagine myself in Thailand making half of what I make and having a more enjoyable life as opposed to one I here in States.
Most of my lower division classes have been online at my local community college, but the math classes are not online and I have a hard time following the professor's lectures and getting to class early. Youtube lectures helps with some concepts, but I think I need to supplement my college math classes with an online program of some sort or a private math tutor.
Can anyone recommend some math online math courses that cover Algebra to Calculus please? Any tips that help with time management, focus and staying motivated?
I also liked http://www.mathsisfun.com/ and https://brilliant.org/ although you need to pay for the Calculus content.
Mind sharing a few thoughts about your experience as an "older" student? Any surprises about the coursework/assignments/fellow students?
Comparing my oldest child's recent university experience to mine (in the 70s) it's like a different world. Much more paper submission & grading online, much more 'handholding' and support from the instructors, more teamwork assignments, less reading.
Thanks again for the followup, and congrats!!!
The tradeoff of ease is the huge variety and diversity of knowledge to learn. A CS degree in ML can have a completely different curriculum than a CS degree in algorithms or web design or OS/systems/databases. There is much more to learn.
I am curious if this is an isolated situation at my university or if this trend is more secular.
In many classes attendance makes up a comparable portion of grades as tests, which means in order to pass classes you need attendance points and class assignments, many of which are "effort based", so in most cases one can fail 75% of tests and still pass with decent grades.
It's been a great ride, I've worked for about 3 years on both the front end and back end. I've been promoted twice and have started becoming assigned as lead developer on some projects. Overall, I think I'm about 6 - 12 months away from being promoted to a senior developer. As others mentioned, my strong soft skills (being able to project manage myself, communicate effectively, estimate tasks well and honor my estimates) have made me very attractive in comparison to other candidates who have been programming since they were 12 but are much more difficult to work with. The ability to "get stuff done" is underrated.
Anyways, the main point is I am so happy with my career restart into programming at 32. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
* take as many opportunities as you can in presenting to others. Public speaking skills are important * refine your skills in creating good product demos of your work * spend time writing concise and well structured documentation * Do some self reflection every time you get into a heated argument with a co-worker. Think about what you could have done better to prevent emotions from flaring up. The best engineers at my company are the ones who are really good at managing discussions * Make sure that any meeting you attend flows well. If people (including yourself) are meandering from the main point of the meeting then lead the group back to the main point. Take good notes. Make sure the meeting has an agenda. If it ends early then tell people they can leave rather so you can give back attendees time. If you have a shy person in the group pro-actively ask their opinion. On the same end if you have a verbose person in the group make sure to end their discussion if they are meandering. * Put yourself in your user's shoes as much as possible. Don't just evaluate a feature from a technical standpoint, but also a user standpoint. Your product manager will be happy that they can trust you to wear a "product manager" hat
It really depends on the age of what you know.
Congrats on finishing school!
This is where a mentor I believe does a great job. I know people that had a hard time learning because they don't have someone guiding them. Some aspects, like say, async programming or memory management could be hard to grasp by yourself but when someone explains it well, then it everything starts to come together. That's why when I'm teaching I always tell people to understand the concepts first cause you'll only learn it once and it will help you understand the pieces better.
But how I found mentors naturally was hang out at a place called Hacker Dojo here in Silicon Valley. Since they often had free JavaScript classes and meetups, I took advantage of that to make connections and eventually found mentors/friends and people in general that help you out.
When I went back on the market in 2008, I basically had to look for junior developer jobs even though I had 12 years experience on paper - and a degree.
Fortunately(?), by then I waa so underpaid, even junior developers were making more than I was so it was still a slight raise.
It took 10 years, a lot of humility, and a lot of job hopping to get to an architect role and to get to the 50th-60th percentile of lead/senior developer for my local market. (After awhile your experience doesn't mean more pay if you're not a manager)
I also have a non-STEM degree and the prospect of going to grad school for CS or Math related courses seems tempting. I don't want to work for local small web shops forever, and prefer to see myself in the long run working at a big semiconductor firm or aerospace firm. However, time and financial issues are holding me back from trying out college again.
If OP's experience is more the norm, where tons of doors open for you simply for having the right degree and preparation, what should I do to make ends meet in the interim? How can I get a job to support myself while I'm attending college, when I can't interview worth a damn? I'm hoping I can get by with a campus job, waive part of my tuition (I've also worked on campus last time I was in college).
On a side note, anyone else a bit worried that there being a tech or economic bubble? Reading this thread, I can't help but be reminded of the dotcom bubble when everyone was getting into tech or the "I just became a realtor" craze before the housing bubble crash.
Anyone maintain a list of indicators other than S&P 500 PE ratio or the interest rate?
I'm generally optimistic on the economy because of the tax cuts and the expected infrastructure spending, but still, don't wait to be caught with my pants down like the 2008 financial disaster.
Simply asking for time to talk about the position is enough to bypass any automated process
And I really encourage you to find a good team (rather than just focusing on salary), it'll really level you up quickly — and set you up for lots of good opportunities as the years go by.
That said, it was kind of clear from your original post that you were headed in the right direction! Hell, just reading/asking Hacker news meant you already had two feet in the community :-)