I think there's probably always going to be ways that these sorts of systems will be evaded; it's just the nature of the beast with computer systems.
What we're hoping we'll be able to do though is to build this in such a way that there's value to the kids as well as the parents. If the choice is between getting an annoying phone-call everyday to ask where you are and having this app, I think for all the times when the kid isn't doing something malicious, they'll prefer to just have the app. Similarly the app lets kids locate their parents as well -- this can be handy if they're waiting for a lift for example.
The last line of defence is that we plan to build in features to tell parents when the app has been disabled by the kid. Saying that the app has crashed is one thing, but if that results in an angry phone call telling them to start it up again -- even if it has just crashed -- I think kids will be less inclined to keep playing that card.
Awesome feedback though. Keep it coming, dudes!
So in other words you do plan to (help parents) invade kids privacy even when the kids actively don't want their parents to know where they are. The word "defence" in that sentence is pretty revealing - your frame of perception seems to be that of a battle between kids trying to get away from your app and parents who don't want them to.
Your " kid who want to see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up," scenario doesn't need this feature.
"We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy.
However, children who want their parents to know when they're getting home from soccer practise, or see how far away their mother is when she's coming to pick them up, is quite a different scenario."
Yeah that's why kids can't turn the app off without letting their parents know ;-).
"We, like you, hate the idea of abusing trust and privacy."
is very believable, given that feature ;-)
I guess it is all right (must be a dumb kid who'd accept such a poison pill gift ) as long as there is no sugarcoating involved and everyone (including the kids) knows what they are getting into. The latter (kids knowing what they are getting into is somewhat dubious).
Somewhat slimy product in my personal opinion, but hey if it makes money I can't blame you for trying to get some.
Next step: Spouse tracking so you know they aren't having an affair on the side. ;-)
Next step: Employee tracking so you know how much time they are spending by the watercooler or the coffeeshop or whether they are really attending the tech conference your company sponsored , or even if any two employees are spending time in each other's bedrooms.
As I said it must be a dumb person who'd accept this kind of un-switch-offable- without-warning-Big-Brother app on his or her phone. No different from an electronic monitoring device (as mandated by law for people under house arrest say) as long as you want to use your phone. The only difference is that it isn't strapped to you.
If you could somehow add a breathalyzer to the IPhone you could broadcast the alcohol content in your blood to your parents. How about letting your parents know how long and when you spoke to whom? Maybe add some speech recognition to catch any "dirty language". All unswitch off able of course!
Surely there's an app for that!
We're the first to admit that it's going to take some time to get the balance right. Fundamentally though, we're pretty committed to the idea of making this useful for both parents and for children, and hoping that "last defenses" won't be needed.
As an example here, we built the system intentionally such that children would know their parents' location in addition to the parents knowing the child's. That's got a few implications that are pretty important, but for starters it means that parents aren't asking their children to do something that they're not willing to do themselves -- that actually raises the bar pretty significantly, and I think it does drive home to the parents exactly what it is that they're asking of their kids.
Do we think that parents should know when their kids have disabled the app? Right now: yes, we do. I'm open to the idea that we might be wrong on that, but to my mind it's just an extension of the negotiations about trust and so forth that parents and kids already need to engage in: if you want time when your parents won't be tracking you, you negotiate to get that time. It's like the negotiation that happens whenever a child wants to do anything without parental, or adult supervision. To my mind privacy invasion and responsible parenting are different things, and I think the straw-man arguments presented in that direction are a little unfair to parents, though I concede that there will always be exceptions.
We did actually look at doing this for spouses -- not to detect cheating (a cheating spouse will be even more motivated to subvert the system than a child), but to help out with stuff like "are you near the supermarket? Can you pick up some milk?", but fundamentally people don't seem all that interested in it. I think employees would be kinda similar: you get fired if you're not getting your work done, water cooler or no.
The above is valid only if kids without your product have to negotiate right now for every moment out of sight of an adult. I don't think that is true (in general) anywhere. That would be a terrible childhood (and adolescence). You are shrinking the time kids do have away from adult monitoring (at least as far as their location goes) to zero (with the unswitch-off-able version).
Just replace kids with employees. You can "negotiate" with your employer to not track you when you are off work, (he'll just get a message that you've switched off). So what's the problem? No adult will accept such a service (and there are good reasons for it). Why don't they apply to kids (including teenagers)?
But the problem isn't one of negotiation. The idea of subjecting anyone to potential 24 hour surveillance is terrible, especially when you dangle some bling in front of kids too young to realize what exactly they are opting into. Yes other people (including governments) are doing it but "he's doing it too" was never a valid defense.
(Imo) Kids shouldn't have to "negotiate" not being monitored every second of their lives. At least adults have the intellectual sophistication to think through the consequences of a leash like this and would flee from any such product like the spouses you interviewed, iow adults, are doing. Of course they aren't interested. Adults see the potential for misuse easily).
Kids are more likely to be too blinded by the thought of an IPhone to fully understand what they are giving up. And frankly I think only immature kids will ever consent to this kind for trackability.
I don't know you guys from Adam and I don't blame you for building this. You are trying to make money and not building anything illegal (I think). All I said is I think it is a slimy product (in other words ethically slimy not legally) and would never buy it for any kids I know.
This might make sense for very young kids or old people suffering from dementia or Alzheimers or something, but these don't need to be bribed to give away their privacy with an IPhone they couldn't otherwise afford.
All this needs is for one nasty incident for this to blow up in your faces. I am (slightly) surprised Apple allows this on their phones (and that YC is funding this. wtf?!!). As I said, not illegal, but (again imo, feel free to differ, ymmv etc) a somewhat unethical product.
To repeat, I am not condemning you as evil people. I do think you are being somewhat disingenuous with the "kids can opt in too" argument. Kids are not in a position of equal power with parents/other authorities for their "opt in" to have much value as a justification.
All that said this is your business. You (and your investors and customers) have to think this through. I am just a remote person expressing his opinion on the ethics of this thing.
They just call each other in this situation which means there's no need for some additional program on a special phone that they may not even own.
