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0 pointsfijal10y ago0 comments

College in Poland is free and there are options for very limited stipends which can sustain you (albeit on a poverty level). That did lift me from a poor, but educated, family into the world of computer software and a relatively successful career it seems. As it did for countless of my peers.

Please don't discount free education as "not changing much", in the US I would be probably working at Mc Donalds or dealing crack and in jail.

0 comments

17 comments · 4 top-level

tptacek10y ago· 6 in thread

I'm not opposed to free education. I'm certain free education is better than $150k education. But gating stable employment on 4-year degrees is problematic for reasons other than tuition costs, and, equally important to this thread, startups probably can't make college free, but they might be able to replace college for a pretty big set of white collar jobs.

fscherer10y ago

I think colleges should educate people and not only train them for a job. This is only really viable with free education and much harder to do with the alternatives which are discussed right now.

waterlesscloud10y ago

Sure, but training them for an economically viable life is certainly higher priority than a so-called well-rounded education.

5 more replies

pc8610y ago

> I'm certain free education is better than $150k education.

Is this really the case? Sure for identical education free is better than non-free, but I know even in software development if you're applying for jobs in the US and your degree is from Poland there are places that won't interview you, let alone hire you.

Fargren10y ago

In Argentina, the University of Buenos Aires is free and I know plenty of people who went from there to Google. They got better scores than Harvard in ACM last year. So yeah, free education can be as good in quality as paid education, at least in some cases.

fijalOP10y ago

sorry, misunderstood you, apologies.

intended10y ago

Largely - It's not an education problem. It's a jobs, discrimination, and "qualification creep" problem.

lukasm10y ago· 3 in thread

There are problems with free Uni in Poland

- people studying for 10 years just to extend the childhood. (government pay 15k a year to the uni)

- some Unis accept people just to get money off of the government (accepted 500, graduate 100)

- lack of quality due to poor funding

Uni should not be free, but cheap. (50% of yearly median salary)

mietek10y ago

If people have the means to support themselves while studying for 10 years, why not let them study for 10 years? They are certainly not receiving a scholarship for these 10 years.

franciscop10y ago

In Spain the first time you take a subject the University is almost free. The second time (if you fail) you have to pay 40% of the price and the 3rd+ times you pay 100%.

Note: in Spain it is expected to fail some subjects in Engineering

lukasm10y ago

@mietek I have no problem if they pay for everything. Tax payers are paying 100%.

phrogdriver10y ago· 2 in thread

Not to nitpick, but in my experience growing up in the Midwest of the US most "poor, but educated, families" like mine pushed children into state schools where they pay in-state tuition and graduate with $10-40k in debt. Most careers are open to them and you would almost definitely not be working at McDs or in jail.

fijalOP10y ago

So ok, we're comparing realities that might not be comparable. I also didn't have as bad as others, but in my case something like "in-state tuition" was essentially unthinkable as well as any sort of debt. If you have nothing, first it's unlikely someone would borrow you the money and second it's a terrifying prospect and a lot of money.

The US poverty line is about 15k for a two-person family. That would mean that earning that much would make 1-3 years of family income in debt.

jdminhbg10y ago

> If you have nothing, first it's unlikely someone would borrow you the money

In the case of education this is not the case; the federal government provides (or backstops) the loans.

2 more replies

crazypyro10y ago· 2 in thread

That last sentence is almost assuredly a massive hyperbole. The US is not that bad...

chc10y ago

The idea that many poor adults work at McDonald's is assuredly not hyperbole.

vectorjohn10y ago

Largest non-violent per capita prison population in the world? Not that much hyperbole.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

17 comments · 4 top-level

tptacek10y ago· 6 in thread

fscherer10y ago

I think colleges should educate people and not only train them for a job. This is only really viable with free education and much harder to do with the alternatives which are discussed right now.

waterlesscloud10y ago

Sure, but training them for an economically viable life is certainly higher priority than a so-called well-rounded education.

5 more replies

pc8610y ago

> I'm certain free education is better than $150k education.

Fargren10y ago

fijalOP10y ago

sorry, misunderstood you, apologies.

intended10y ago

Largely - It's not an education problem. It's a jobs, discrimination, and "qualification creep" problem.

lukasm10y ago· 3 in thread

There are problems with free Uni in Poland

- people studying for 10 years just to extend the childhood. (government pay 15k a year to the uni)

- some Unis accept people just to get money off of the government (accepted 500, graduate 100)

- lack of quality due to poor funding

Uni should not be free, but cheap. (50% of yearly median salary)

mietek10y ago

If people have the means to support themselves while studying for 10 years, why not let them study for 10 years? They are certainly not receiving a scholarship for these 10 years.

franciscop10y ago

In Spain the first time you take a subject the University is almost free. The second time (if you fail) you have to pay 40% of the price and the 3rd+ times you pay 100%.

Note: in Spain it is expected to fail some subjects in Engineering

lukasm10y ago

@mietek I have no problem if they pay for everything. Tax payers are paying 100%.

phrogdriver10y ago· 2 in thread

fijalOP10y ago

The US poverty line is about 15k for a two-person family. That would mean that earning that much would make 1-3 years of family income in debt.

jdminhbg10y ago

> If you have nothing, first it's unlikely someone would borrow you the money

In the case of education this is not the case; the federal government provides (or backstops) the loans.

2 more replies

crazypyro10y ago· 2 in thread

That last sentence is almost assuredly a massive hyperbole. The US is not that bad...

chc10y ago

The idea that many poor adults work at McDonald's is assuredly not hyperbole.

vectorjohn10y ago

Largest non-violent per capita prison population in the world? Not that much hyperbole.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse