Ask HN: Are NDAs Just Security Theater?

6 pointswebhat10y ago11 comments

For the past couple of years I've felt NDAs are a form of security theater. They create the illusion of safety, and don't actually make you any safer.

An NDA won't stop anybody from disclosing information, and only regulate the aftermath.

Personally I don't sign NDAs, and was wondering if you generally do sign an NDA? And why, if you ask for somebody to sign an NDA, you do?

11 comments

jseeff10y ago

1) NDA may stop someone from disclosing information.... it may not, but it may. That has a degree of value and the document is generally pretty short and simple to understand so not too problematic.

2) for the same reason many people will not sign an NDA (trust, hassle) you may want them to- trust, commitment.

3) even if an NDA only serves to regulate "the aftermath", that too can have value, especially in the rare but possible cases of mis-use of information e.g. by a competitor...

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the answer!

markbarrington10y ago

Many companies where I have worked typically ask potential suppliers to sign NDAs because they don't want details of future product plans either being made public or, more likely, discussed in the industry.

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the answer!

tmuir10y ago

Isn't it the policy of most tech companies to force all new employees to sign an NDA as a condition of employment?

ColinWright10y ago

Some previous discussions you might find useful and/or relevant. There are many, many more, some of which you can find through this search:

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=sign%20nda&sort=byPopularity&p...

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7158091

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (svbtle) (ryanckulp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7160262

    Show HN: Why sign a NDA when you can just
             pinky swear instead?
             (pinky-swear.herokuapp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7234094

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (medium.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7587687

    When startups should sign non disclosure
    agreements (startacus.net)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7604500

    Don't ask me to sign your NDA (medium.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7731724

    Should freelancers in gamedev industry
    sign NDAs? (t-machine.org)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7933163

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (landonschropp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8169957

    Ask HN: Would you sign an NDA?

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8284681

    Why You Shouldn't Ask Us to Sign Your NDA
    (atomicobject.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9172583

    Ask HN: A potential investor in my startup
            asked me to sign an NDA. Should I?

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9195949

    Ask HN: What does it mean to sign NDA?

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the list.

I asked on purpose again for a couple of reasons: most of the answers were over 1 year old, most focus on why people shouldn't ask and not why they do ask or why they do sign.

ColinWright10y ago

Personal opinion, and it's very likely you know all this. I'm sorry in advance if it seems patronising, but here are my thoughts as they occurred. Even though some are invalid or unjustified, I thought there would be value in seeing them "up front" like this.

There would have been value in saying so in your question. I can imagine that most people would go - been there, done that - and just moved on.

From what you say you have done your homework and looked at the previous answers, but there would have been real value in collating the answers, presenting them, and then explaining why you feel the question is worth asking again. What do you feel has changed? Why are those answers no longer relevant, or complete?

Just asking the question with no reference to previous answers makes it feel like you haven't done any checking or research.

The document has its short-coming, and it's for a different context, but let me quote from "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way"[0]:

    Before asking a technical question by e-mail,
    or in a newsgroup, or on a website chat board,
    do the following:

        Try to find an answer by searching the
        archives of the forum or mailing list
        you plan to post to.

        Try to find an answer by searching the Web.

        Try to find an answer by reading the manual.

        Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.

        Try to find an answer by inspection or
        experimentation.

        Try to find an answer by asking a skilled
        friend.

        If you're a programmer, try to find an
        answer by reading the source code.

    When you ask your question, display the fact that
    you have done these things first; this will help
    establish that you're not being a lazy sponge and
    wasting people's time.  Better yet, display what
    you have learned from doing these things. We like
    answering questions for people who have demonstrated
    they can learn from the answers.

A lot of that is not relevant in this case, but enough of it is that it's worth knowing.

[0] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

1 more reply

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11 comments

jseeff10y ago

1) NDA may stop someone from disclosing information.... it may not, but it may. That has a degree of value and the document is generally pretty short and simple to understand so not too problematic.

2) for the same reason many people will not sign an NDA (trust, hassle) you may want them to- trust, commitment.

3) even if an NDA only serves to regulate "the aftermath", that too can have value, especially in the rare but possible cases of mis-use of information e.g. by a competitor...

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the answer!

markbarrington10y ago

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the answer!

tmuir10y ago

Isn't it the policy of most tech companies to force all new employees to sign an NDA as a condition of employment?

ColinWright10y ago

Some previous discussions you might find useful and/or relevant. There are many, many more, some of which you can find through this search:

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=sign%20nda&sort=byPopularity&p...

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7158091

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (svbtle) (ryanckulp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7160262

    Show HN: Why sign a NDA when you can just
             pinky swear instead?
             (pinky-swear.herokuapp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7234094

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (medium.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7587687

    When startups should sign non disclosure
    agreements (startacus.net)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7604500

    Don't ask me to sign your NDA (medium.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7731724

    Should freelancers in gamedev industry
    sign NDAs? (t-machine.org)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7933163

    Why I Won't Sign Your NDA (landonschropp.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8169957

    Ask HN: Would you sign an NDA?

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8284681

    Why You Shouldn't Ask Us to Sign Your NDA
    (atomicobject.com)

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9172583

    Ask HN: A potential investor in my startup
            asked me to sign an NDA. Should I?

========

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9195949

    Ask HN: What does it mean to sign NDA?

webhatOP10y ago

Thanks for the list.

I asked on purpose again for a couple of reasons: most of the answers were over 1 year old, most focus on why people shouldn't ask and not why they do ask or why they do sign.

ColinWright10y ago

There would have been value in saying so in your question. I can imagine that most people would go - been there, done that - and just moved on.

Just asking the question with no reference to previous answers makes it feel like you haven't done any checking or research.

The document has its short-coming, and it's for a different context, but let me quote from "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way"[0]:

    Before asking a technical question by e-mail,
    or in a newsgroup, or on a website chat board,
    do the following:

        Try to find an answer by searching the
        archives of the forum or mailing list
        you plan to post to.

        Try to find an answer by searching the Web.

        Try to find an answer by reading the manual.

        Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.

        Try to find an answer by inspection or
        experimentation.

        Try to find an answer by asking a skilled
        friend.

        If you're a programmer, try to find an
        answer by reading the source code.

    When you ask your question, display the fact that
    you have done these things first; this will help
    establish that you're not being a lazy sponge and
    wasting people's time.  Better yet, display what
    you have learned from doing these things. We like
    answering questions for people who have demonstrated
    they can learn from the answers.

A lot of that is not relevant in this case, but enough of it is that it's worth knowing.

[0] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse