The situation you describe is not one I experience in web APPS. I DO experience it on blogs/news ALL THE TIME and it's normally due to ads being injected. I'm sorry but that's a completely different example then what I'm talking about and rarely due to a framework. I even said:

> If we are talking about a blog then sure, needing JS is just stupid, my blog works just fine with or without JS but if I'm building a web app there is no way I can reasonably deliver both a cutting edge JS web app AND a static, submit-the-page-to-do-anything app.