Yes, modern linux and sysvinit are pigs compared to some alternatives (though systemd is worse). The choice isn't a binary choice between sysvinit and systemd. How about this? init + rc + all the scripts combined are smaller than your handful of daemon-specific scripts. And I understand exactly how all of this works (the kernel parts included). I can easily change any part of it, I can easily debug any part of it, I can easily extend any of it if I need special features. With systems that comprise hundreds of thousands of lines of code, just beginning to understand how all of it works together takes much more time...

Simplicity really does buy me something.

    $ wc -l /usr/src/sbin/init/init.c
        1450 /usr/src/sbin/init/init.c

    $ wc -l /etc/rc
        537 /etc/rc

    $ wc -l /etc/rc.d/*

      21 /etc/rc.d/amd
      11 /etc/rc.d/apmd
      21 /etc/rc.d/avahi_daemon
      21 /etc/rc.d/avahi_dnsconfd
      11 /etc/rc.d/bgpd
      15 /etc/rc.d/bootparamd
       9 /etc/rc.d/cron
      14 /etc/rc.d/cvsyncd
      16 /etc/rc.d/dbus_daemon
      15 /etc/rc.d/dhcpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/dhcrelay
      12 /etc/rc.d/dvmrpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/ftpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/ftpproxy
       9 /etc/rc.d/hostapd
       9 /etc/rc.d/hotplugd
      11 /etc/rc.d/httpd
      13 /etc/rc.d/identd
       9 /etc/rc.d/ifstated
      17 /etc/rc.d/iked
       9 /etc/rc.d/inetd
      17 /etc/rc.d/isakmpd
      17 /etc/rc.d/iscsid
      11 /etc/rc.d/ldapd
      15 /etc/rc.d/ldattach
      11 /etc/rc.d/ldomd
      11 /etc/rc.d/ldpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/lockd
       9 /etc/rc.d/lpd
      16 /etc/rc.d/mopd
      17 /etc/rc.d/mountd
       9 /etc/rc.d/mrouted
      18 /etc/rc.d/nfsd
      11 /etc/rc.d/npppd
      38 /etc/rc.d/nsd
      12 /etc/rc.d/ntpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/ospf6d
      11 /etc/rc.d/ospfd
      24 /etc/rc.d/pflogd
      11 /etc/rc.d/popa3d
      11 /etc/rc.d/portmap
      16 /etc/rc.d/rarpd
       9 /etc/rc.d/rbootd
     289 /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
      11 /etc/rc.d/relayd
      11 /etc/rc.d/ripd
       9 /etc/rc.d/route6d
      11 /etc/rc.d/rsyncd
      11 /etc/rc.d/rtadvd
      11 /etc/rc.d/rtsold
       9 /etc/rc.d/rwhod
      11 /etc/rc.d/sasyncd
      13 /etc/rc.d/sendmail
       9 /etc/rc.d/sensorsd
      11 /etc/rc.d/slowcgi
      13 /etc/rc.d/smtpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/sndiod
      12 /etc/rc.d/snmpd
      26 /etc/rc.d/spamd
      25 /etc/rc.d/spamlogd
      13 /etc/rc.d/sshd
      11 /etc/rc.d/statd
      15 /etc/rc.d/syslogd
      12 /etc/rc.d/tftpd
      11 /etc/rc.d/tftpproxy
       9 /etc/rc.d/tor
      32 /etc/rc.d/unbound
       9 /etc/rc.d/watchdogd
      11 /etc/rc.d/wsmoused
       9 /etc/rc.d/xdm
      16 /etc/rc.d/ypbind
      11 /etc/rc.d/ypldap
      28 /etc/rc.d/yppasswdd
      13 /etc/rc.d/ypserv
    1285 total

/etc/init.d $ for I in * ; do printf "%s %s \n" $(cat $I | grep -v -e '#' | wc -l) $I; done | sort -n | grep -v net.e | tail

  142 mysql
  142 sysfs
  157 kexec
  172 udev
  172 xdm
  182 apache2
  195 bootmisc
  232 named
  297 dmcrypt
  736 net.lo

This is on an OpenRC Gentoo system. There's very little duplicated code in the init scripts.

You might well complain that many these init scripts are substantially longer than the equivalent systemd unit files. Your complaint would be valid. Thing is, many of these init scripts do so much more than the equivalent systemd unit files. Ferinstance, the postgres and mysql unit files that I've seen permit no user configuration (like, such as, altering daemon listen port, config file location, and the like). [0] They also don't do any sort of housekeeping such as verification of the validity of the service's configuration file, checking and repairing mode and ownership of the same, and verifying the existence of the service's data directory.

I understand that OpenRC wasn't being considered for Debian Jessie, but it does a lot of things right, and is (IMO) head-and-shoulders above SysV init. (But then, isn't even bringing up SysV init kind of beating on a dead horse? We all agree that it really needs improvement.)

If you're interested, Gentoo's apache2 init script is here: http://pastebin.ca/2845519 . For reference, the apache2 systemd service file is here: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/www-... .

For a look at a simpler init script, check out the script for dnsmasq: http://pastebin.ca/2845520 . Looks pretty simple, no? At least as simple as the systemd service files we've been seeing, yes? The config file for dnsmasq is a single line: DNSMASQ_OPTS="--user=dnsmasq --group=dnsmasq" .

OpenRC provides complexity when you need it, and gets out of your way when you don't.

[0] I don't have systemd installed, so I might be missing the user configuration facilities. If they exist, and the configuration files have any appreciable complexity, then their line count must be counted against the unit file's line length.

Using sysvinit doesn't require a domain specific configuration language to be known and understood. So I think simpler is quite valid.

Less verbose does _not_ mean simpler! In many cases it means quite the opposite.

UNIX to me is about simplicity. We don't need crap like binary logs and heavy RPC mechanisms to be polluting beautifully simple and minimal systems.

As several others have noted, the code duplication issue is solved in FreeBSD's init(8) with rc.subr.

If duplicate code bothers you this much, then what stops you from abstracting the common routines into something like BSD's /etc/rc.subr, and then sourcing them in the service-specific init script?

You see crap. I see time-polished scripts.

I also suspect you're running RH. Under Debian script lengths are typically quite short:

n: 104 sum: 13553 min: 8 max: 1246 mean: 130.317308 median: 99 sd: 138.595750

That outlier, by the way, is xprint, part of CUPS. Never had to touch it myself.

Quite a few of those lines are comments, and the basic structure is a set of start / stop / restart blocks.

The comment makes more sense if you substitute "familiar" for "simple," a tactic I use a lot while reading arguments like these.

And on my Debian testing system with systemd, the longest service definition is 46 lines! (/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service)