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0 pointsxorcist11y ago0 comments

This is not something you agree or disgree with. The Linux technologies mentioned _was_ contemporary, or in specific cases even pre-dates, zones.

The rest is just not a one-to-one comparison. The fact that Linux requires the kernel to be patched is a cultural thing. That is how new functionality is distributed in Linux land.

Linux-vserver also does not, as you mention, offer comparable functionality. Solaris Zones works differently, and the only cases where you can compare them is where their use cases overlap. But you will see much more overlap with something like LXC.

Any direct comparion is moot however, as Sun/Oracle does not want these technologies to be adopted in Linux. They can at most serve as (valuable) proof of concepts on how the implementation works in the real world as Linux slowly gains corresponding functionality. And it increasingly looks like Docker is part of this picture.

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binarycrusader11y ago· 2 in thread

Regardless, I disagree with the assertion. linux-vservers barely had their first 1.0 release about a year (2004) before the release of Solaris Zones as a beta. It's likely that the actual development of Solaris zones started around the same time as linux-vservers.

Even if you were to successfully argue that it "predates" Solaris zones -- it doesn't predate them by very much.

The fact that Linux requires the kernel to be patched is not just a cultural thing; it's a very large additional maintenance cost and proves that linux-vserver wasn't valuable to go and stay in the mainline kernel. I spent enough years maintaining Linux servers that required mainline kernel patches (such as a workstation at home) that I grow tired of it.

You can't blame Sun/Oracle for the failure of Linux to produce a completely equivalent technology.

The primary problem is that none of the mainstream Linux distributions have chosen to actually build a fully-architected platform including both the kernel and userland. The OpenStack project is finally forcing some of them to do that, but until they have a filesystem just as capable as ZFS (btrfs someday?), a packaging system that's just as deterministic and capable as IPS (Nix someday?), they'll always be a little bit behind.

Integration matters in the operating system; it makes a huge difference in terms of capability, reliability, and user experience.

In the end, use the right OS for the right job. I happen to believe Solaris is the right OS for servers, but I develop and distribute software for Windows, Mac OS X, Solaris, and Linux as I think they are either great or generally reasonable desktop OS systems.

xorcistOP11y ago

> It's likely that the actual development of Solaris zones started around the same time as linux-vservers.

That's what contemporary means.

> linux-vserver wasn't valuable to go and stay in the mainline kernel.

Lots of technology start out-of-tree and is only much later incorporated into mainline. That's part of what the big Linux distributors do for a living, and a healthy side of the Linux ecosystem.

> none of the mainstream Linux distributions have chosen to actually build a fully-architected platform including both the kernel and userland

For compartmentalization, I take it. It is indeed a problem that it has stayed a niche product in Linux land for so long, but there have been plenty of minor Linux distributors focusing on it, mainly for ISP use.

> In the end, use the right OS for the right job. I happen to believe

I have never in my professional life been in a situation where the operating system was not given by the circumstances. What I believe is simply not relevant. YMMV, of course, and good for you if it does.

binarycrusader11y ago

In the end, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

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