undefined | Better HN

story

0 pointsdrewcrawford11y ago0 comments

I live in Austin which is a very densely-populated regional tech hub. Here we have three 30-mbit FTTN ISPs which is more competition than pretty much anywhere else in the US.

Earlier this year Google announced they were bringing Google Fiber here. Immediately all the ISPs announced that they, too, would be offering FTTH speeds. One company announced 300mbit, another rolled out 300mbit as part of a roadmap to gigabit, and the third actually rolled out gigabit well ahead of Google Fiber, which is still applying for permits.

I agree with you in principle that there is some margin below which companies will not invest in expensive capital expenditures. However there is also a margin above which companies will not invest in capital expenditures, because they have a sure thing going. The question is where those lines are.

The data from Austin show that in a market considered "exceptionally competitive" by American standards, companies are willing to invest an order of magnitude more in capital expenditures than they currently do just by threatening to create a lower-margin market. Google's work here, which so far consists of exactly 0 fiber installs, a landing page, and a contract with the city, has been so effective at transforming the market here that it's being argued by locals that it would be more efficient to forget about actually installing any fiber and they should just make announcements in one city after another and wait for the ISPs to do it for them.

0 comments

rayiner11y ago

Ask yourself: why does Austin already have three FTTN ISP's when San Francisco doesn't? It wasn't because they had a higher level of regulation than other cities, it was because they had less.

drewcrawfordOP11y ago

Another nice narrative that doesn't fit with experimental data.

In spite of the fact that one would imagine a Texas city to be less regulated than a California city, it isn't really that simple.

In Austin a strong majority of the utility poles are owned by the city. The ones that aren't are largely owned by AT&T, which complains very loudly that it is required to sell access to anyone who wants it at a price dictated by the Federal Communications Commission nationwide.

Meanwhile California (get this) opted out of much of the FCC regulation around utility poles and effectively allows a large private company to own and control the poles. This private company is made up of all the usual suspects like AT&T, Sprint, PG&E, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc., who seem to have formed a holding company to buy utility poles without anyone at the state being concerned about antitrust concerns. I'm not exactly sure what the requirements are to join--if access is "open" (for some definition of open) this may be how they circumvent the Sherman Antitrust Act etc.

California did pass "fair access" laws in 2011 [1] but as far as I can tell they only apply to "local publicly owned electric utilities" which presumably would not include AT&T and its utility pole holding company. There probably is some kind of regulation that in principle regulates competitive access to poles but how it compares to the FCC's jurisdiction in Texas it is difficult to say.

This is a side note, but we should really be having less talk about how we think regulation works and more case studies about how it does or doesn't work in these comment threads. "Less regulation == better internet" is a plausible model but so was the Bohr Model of the atom. "Is it correct?" is the question and that question can only be answered by looking at empirically what happens.

[1] http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billStatusClient.xht...

rayiner11y ago

The fact Austin is less regulated isn't a hypothetical. We know Austin is less regulated than most cities. Its a Google Fiber city, which means it agreed to ditch most of the regulations, like build out requirements, that other cities impose. Google doesn't bring fiber to a city without massive concessions. Kansas City agreed to get the permits through in five days. Provo sold Google a $30 million fiber network for $1.

Maybe pole attachments have something to do with it too, but lots of cities own their poles but don't have competing fiber services.

See: http://crosscut.com/2014/03/04/business/118993/google-fiber-...

Also re Portland: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2023420101_b...

The last article is a must-read. This is the kind of person standing in the way of fiber deployment, as much as any cable lobbyist.

"That’s a nice deal where it’s available. But the company has been slow to expand its coverage area in Kansas City and vague about if and when it will reach some working-class areas, according to a report in The Kansas City Star.

Cities really have one opportunity to ensure that all of their residents will be served by these next generation broadband services.

That’s during the initial franchise negotiations, when cities can press for universal coverage in return for the special rules and public property they’re offering up.

Once cities provide these handouts, they don’t have much leverage. They’ll end up bowing and scraping and hoping that Uncle Google throws a bit more fiber their way, someday."

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

rayiner11y ago

Ask yourself: why does Austin already have three FTTN ISP's when San Francisco doesn't? It wasn't because they had a higher level of regulation than other cities, it was because they had less.

drewcrawfordOP11y ago

Another nice narrative that doesn't fit with experimental data.

In spite of the fact that one would imagine a Texas city to be less regulated than a California city, it isn't really that simple.

[1] http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billStatusClient.xht...

rayiner11y ago

Maybe pole attachments have something to do with it too, but lots of cities own their poles but don't have competing fiber services.

See: http://crosscut.com/2014/03/04/business/118993/google-fiber-...

Also re Portland: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2023420101_b...

The last article is a must-read. This is the kind of person standing in the way of fiber deployment, as much as any cable lobbyist.

Cities really have one opportunity to ensure that all of their residents will be served by these next generation broadband services.

That’s during the initial franchise negotiations, when cities can press for universal coverage in return for the special rules and public property they’re offering up.

Once cities provide these handouts, they don’t have much leverage. They’ll end up bowing and scraping and hoping that Uncle Google throws a bit more fiber their way, someday."

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse