Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET (opens in new tab)

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44 pointsarunagarwal12y ago19 comments

19 comments

16 comments · 7 top-level

edwinnathaniel12y ago· 5 in thread

We have:

Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits.

Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns"

and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out to the public and made an announcement that "I don't do TDD anymore!".

Missing from the group: Uncle Bob, someone who will potentially argue that TDD is useful.

Come on guys! We want Uncle Bob there! Let's make this happen.

ChrisGaudreau12y ago

Kent Beck and Martin Fowler do argue that TDD is useful[1][2]. They're just less dogmatic about it than some people.

[1] http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UnitTest.html

[2] https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/rip-tdd/75084019494...

daviding12y ago

You make Martin sound like some sort of crazed software lepidopterist, pinning dead patterns to a musty whiteboard. I am sure he'll represent what Thoughtworks does with regards to TDD. I doubt Kent will just lay still either.

I see this debate as more of a Services vs Product development techniques mindset, with TDD as the background track. Shipping vs Consultant is another way to see it.

edwinnathaniel12y ago

Whoa, wait a minute right there sir!

Kent Beck actually works for Facebook.

Martin Fowler is some sort of Principal Engineer or Thought Leader or CTO or Architect or some sort (regardless Services vs Product vs Shipping vs Consultant) for Thoughtworks, an organization that does services and products (check their website :)).

Uncle Bob, on the other hand, is definitely more of a service/consultant person.

6d6512y ago

He's not your uncle. And who the hell they think they are? I mean, I know Fowler the uml guy, but the rest, I think that this is a joke.

xionon12y ago

"Uncle Bob" goes by Uncle Bob. It's a nickname. He likes it. He's also pretty well respected in the software development world.

Kent Beck invented TDD, I think he's pretty qualified.

DHH is the one who started the recent discussion about the value of TDD; in his opinion, it doesn't have any. He's the reason that this conversation is even happening.

1 more reply

tdicola12y ago· 3 in thread

This looks interesting, but am I looking at Google Plus correctly and really not seeing an 'Add to calendar' option to put this event on my gmail calendar? I could have sworn Google was really good about making it easy to put stuff on their calendar. Yeesh.

sleazebreeze12y ago

There's a big "are you going to watch?" pane underneath the main header with Yes, Maybe or No options. That seems to do the trick to add it to my calendar.

tdicola12y ago

Odd--what if I don't want to tell the world that I'm attending?

1 more reply

thomasfromcdnjs12y ago

Just say you are attending and it automatically adds it to your calendar.

1 more reply

tieTYT12y ago· 1 in thread

Is this going to be recorded so I can watch it later?

arunagarwalOP12y ago

Yes you can watch here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9quxZsLcfo

jerf12y ago

Metacomment: Thanks to Thoughtworks (no affiliation) for putting this together, and let's do this more often when this sort of discussion breaks out, it's a fantastic idea. Blog missives have their place in the world, but real debate does too.

KVFinn12y ago

Maybe we can have a TDD person with from the rails community if you do another hangout? I have a feeling you'll end up talking past each other because you work on different kinds of things.

Perhaps https://twitter.com/garybernhardt

His blog response to DHH's keynote: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/blog/2014/tdd-straw-men-a...

jacobkg12y ago

Some Background:

The RailsConf keynote that started it all: http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3315-railsconf-keynote-writi...

David's thoughts in blog post form: http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-liv...

A response from Kent Beck https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/rip-tdd/75084019494...

This should be a great discussion.

walkon12y ago

This post has dropped from the front page of HN to the 3rd in about 15 minutes? I don't get HN at all.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

19 comments

16 comments · 7 top-level

edwinnathaniel12y ago· 5 in thread

We have:

Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits.

and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out to the public and made an announcement that "I don't do TDD anymore!".

Missing from the group: Uncle Bob, someone who will potentially argue that TDD is useful.

Come on guys! We want Uncle Bob there! Let's make this happen.

ChrisGaudreau12y ago

Kent Beck and Martin Fowler do argue that TDD is useful[1][2]. They're just less dogmatic about it than some people.

[1] http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UnitTest.html

[2] https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/rip-tdd/75084019494...

daviding12y ago

I see this debate as more of a Services vs Product development techniques mindset, with TDD as the background track. Shipping vs Consultant is another way to see it.

edwinnathaniel12y ago

Whoa, wait a minute right there sir!

Kent Beck actually works for Facebook.

Uncle Bob, on the other hand, is definitely more of a service/consultant person.

6d6512y ago

He's not your uncle. And who the hell they think they are? I mean, I know Fowler the uml guy, but the rest, I think that this is a joke.

xionon12y ago

"Uncle Bob" goes by Uncle Bob. It's a nickname. He likes it. He's also pretty well respected in the software development world.

Kent Beck invented TDD, I think he's pretty qualified.

DHH is the one who started the recent discussion about the value of TDD; in his opinion, it doesn't have any. He's the reason that this conversation is even happening.

1 more reply

tdicola12y ago· 3 in thread

sleazebreeze12y ago

There's a big "are you going to watch?" pane underneath the main header with Yes, Maybe or No options. That seems to do the trick to add it to my calendar.

tdicola12y ago

Odd--what if I don't want to tell the world that I'm attending?

1 more reply

thomasfromcdnjs12y ago

Just say you are attending and it automatically adds it to your calendar.

1 more reply

tieTYT12y ago· 1 in thread

Is this going to be recorded so I can watch it later?

arunagarwalOP12y ago

Yes you can watch here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9quxZsLcfo

jerf12y ago

KVFinn12y ago

Maybe we can have a TDD person with from the rails community if you do another hangout? I have a feeling you'll end up talking past each other because you work on different kinds of things.

Perhaps https://twitter.com/garybernhardt

His blog response to DHH's keynote: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/blog/2014/tdd-straw-men-a...

jacobkg12y ago

Some Background:

The RailsConf keynote that started it all: http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3315-railsconf-keynote-writi...

David's thoughts in blog post form: http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-liv...

A response from Kent Beck https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/rip-tdd/75084019494...

This should be a great discussion.

walkon12y ago

This post has dropped from the front page of HN to the 3rd in about 15 minutes? I don't get HN at all.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse