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0 pointsleeoniya12y ago0 comments

the irony is that WP source and plugin architecture is written in textbook shit PHP from the 90s. (last i worked with it a couple years ago). i would not wish WP development onto my worst enemies. i really hope it gets displaced by something managable written in proper PSR-0 and >=PHP 5.5

in many ways, WP exemplifies PHP core devs' philosophy of "dont ever break existing ecosystem compat". PHP has some major WTF that lingers on because of this. i'm very surprised that it has been progressing at all considering how stubborn they are on even fixing completely obvious shit like "unexpected comma" errors written in Hebrew. wordpress takes this attitude to a whole new level :(

there is great, maintainable software written in clean* PHP; the only thing i've learned from WP is how not to write software.

0 comments

19 comments · 3 top-level

jrochkind112y ago· 10 in thread

What's your favorite example of great, maintainable open source software written in clean PHP?

I'd like to look at a good example to give it another chance.

leeoniyaOP12y ago

- Doctrine - ORM

- Symfony - framework

- Silex - micro framework based on symfony components

- Laravel - framework

- Slim - framework

- Swiftmailer - email/transport framework

- Guzzle - http web service client

- React - async i/o

- reactphp/promise - promises

- AuraPHP - framework components

- Ratchet - web sockets

- Assetic - Asset Management for PHP

- Piwik - Open Source Analytics

- Monolog - Logging

- Goutte - a simple PHP Web Scraper

many projects use modular components from these and others.

also check out some repos with a lot of stars https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=...

careful though, Wordpress is there also.

jafaku12y ago

You forgot to mention the one that rules them all:

https://github.com/composer/composer

1 more reply

adamors12y ago

Adding to leeoniya's list:

- Behat https://github.com/Behat/Behat - a BDD framework

- phpSpec https://github.com/phpspec/phpspec - specBDD framework

- Sylius https://github.com/Sylius/Sylius - an e-commerce solution built using Symfony and BDD.

All of these are written with current best practices, respect SOLID principles etc.

tedivm12y ago

Shameless plug-

Stash - PHP Caching Library https://github.com/tedivm/Stash

Fetch - IMAP Mail Reading https://github.com/tedivm/Fetch

JShrink - Javascript Minification https://github.com/tedivm/JShrink

I've also created a PHP Project Template (https://github.com/tedivm/PhpProjectTemplate) that includes things like composer, unit test configuration, travis-ci and coveralls integration, and various other things that people can use to bootstrap their modern php project.

leeoniyaOP12y ago

i wasn't gonna post my own, but might as well.

https://github.com/leeoniya/dump_r.php

via Composer: https://packagist.org/packages/leeoniya/dump-r

kodablah12y ago

https://github.com/scrutinizer-ci/php-analyzer is a good example of modern PHP development IMO.

danudey12y ago

Phabricator - http://phabricator.org

Written, unsurprisingly, by Facebook. Probably runs pretty well on HipHop I would imagine.

mgkimsal12y ago

"Written in PHP so literally anyone can contribute, even if they have no idea how to program."

That made me chuckle.

walden4212y ago

Laravel.

jafaku12y ago

That's just a wrapper around Symfony2.

1 more reply

zapt0212y ago· 5 in thread

can we tone down the elitist attitude? i personally enjoy how simple WP is to use and extend - that's one of its core strengths. As with any complex piece of software, there are a few wtf's to be had.

porker12y ago

Upvoting you because you said nothing which deserved a downvote. You have asked a civil question and contributed to the discussion.

I feel the tension you have - it's great to have something simple to use (time to learn WP and produce app X < time to learn Symfony2 and produce app X) and sometimes that's what's needed; it's also nice to have a sane core architecture.

I've worked with PHP 10+ years and WP on and off (had an argument with Matt back in 2003 about WP's code architecture which led to me not getting involved in the project) and WP might be 'easy' but it's not 'simple'. I have to go to the wiki or Google frequently, the functions do not have obvious names, 'The Loop' is crazy behaviour once in an app... a solid modern codebase in the centre would make life easier. Keep the easy extendable nature of it sure - it's great to have a slightly messy outer layer. But please give me a solid core (and a saner template rendering pipeline)

leeoniyaOP12y ago

i am speaking from experience. and without getting into it myself, please refer to some others' opinions.

http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk

http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks...

http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-int...

http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-...

http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress

http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/

gnaritas12y ago

> can we tone down the elitist attitude?

There's nothing elitist about speaking the plain truth, which is exactly what he did.

pessimizer12y ago

Or she did.

1 more reply

nilved12y ago

> how simple WP is to use and extend

Have you ever used anything else? Like ever? Because WP is neither of these.

ianhawes12y ago· 1 in thread

Ironically, the old WordPress motto was "code is poetry".

juddlyon12y ago

Poetry is often about pain and torment. :)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

19 comments · 3 top-level

jrochkind112y ago· 10 in thread

What's your favorite example of great, maintainable open source software written in clean PHP?

I'd like to look at a good example to give it another chance.

leeoniyaOP12y ago

- Doctrine - ORM

- Symfony - framework

- Silex - micro framework based on symfony components

- Laravel - framework

- Slim - framework

- Swiftmailer - email/transport framework

- Guzzle - http web service client

- React - async i/o

- reactphp/promise - promises

- AuraPHP - framework components

- Ratchet - web sockets

- Assetic - Asset Management for PHP

- Piwik - Open Source Analytics

- Monolog - Logging

- Goutte - a simple PHP Web Scraper

many projects use modular components from these and others.

also check out some repos with a lot of stars https://github.com/search?l=PHP&q=stars%3A%3E1&s=stars&type=...

careful though, Wordpress is there also.

jafaku12y ago

You forgot to mention the one that rules them all:

https://github.com/composer/composer

1 more reply

adamors12y ago

Adding to leeoniya's list:

- Behat https://github.com/Behat/Behat - a BDD framework

- phpSpec https://github.com/phpspec/phpspec - specBDD framework

- Sylius https://github.com/Sylius/Sylius - an e-commerce solution built using Symfony and BDD.

All of these are written with current best practices, respect SOLID principles etc.

tedivm12y ago

Shameless plug-

Stash - PHP Caching Library https://github.com/tedivm/Stash

Fetch - IMAP Mail Reading https://github.com/tedivm/Fetch

JShrink - Javascript Minification https://github.com/tedivm/JShrink

leeoniyaOP12y ago

i wasn't gonna post my own, but might as well.

https://github.com/leeoniya/dump_r.php

via Composer: https://packagist.org/packages/leeoniya/dump-r

kodablah12y ago

https://github.com/scrutinizer-ci/php-analyzer is a good example of modern PHP development IMO.

danudey12y ago

Phabricator - http://phabricator.org

Written, unsurprisingly, by Facebook. Probably runs pretty well on HipHop I would imagine.

mgkimsal12y ago

"Written in PHP so literally anyone can contribute, even if they have no idea how to program."

That made me chuckle.

walden4212y ago

Laravel.

jafaku12y ago

That's just a wrapper around Symfony2.

1 more reply

zapt0212y ago· 5 in thread

porker12y ago

Upvoting you because you said nothing which deserved a downvote. You have asked a civil question and contributed to the discussion.

leeoniyaOP12y ago

i am speaking from experience. and without getting into it myself, please refer to some others' opinions.

http://milesj.me/blog/read/wordpress-is-bad-mmmk

http://www.usingwp.com/general-WordPress/why-WordPress-sucks...

http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-WordPress-int...

http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-bad-things-about-WordPress...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1481631/why-is-wordpress-...

http://someguyjeremy.com/blog/why-i-hate-wordpress

http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/wordpress-decoupled/

gnaritas12y ago

> can we tone down the elitist attitude?

There's nothing elitist about speaking the plain truth, which is exactly what he did.

pessimizer12y ago

Or she did.

1 more reply

nilved12y ago

> how simple WP is to use and extend

Have you ever used anything else? Like ever? Because WP is neither of these.

ianhawes12y ago· 1 in thread

Ironically, the old WordPress motto was "code is poetry".

juddlyon12y ago

Poetry is often about pain and torment. :)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse