http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/Porta/jpor...
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There is a beast called "Musimones", gendered of a Goat and a Ram. Pliny says, that in Spain, but especially in Corsica, there are beasts called Musimones not much unlike to Sheep, which have Goats hair, but in other parts, Sheep; the young ones which are gendered of them, coupling with Sheep, are called by the Ancients, Umbri. Strabo calls them Musimones. But Albertus calls them Musini or Musimones, which are gendered of a Goat and a Ram. I have heard that in Rhetia, in Helvetian confines, there are generated certain beasts, which are Goats in the hinder parts, but in the former parts, Sheep or Rams; but they cannot live long, but commonly they die, as soon as they are born. And that there the Rams being grown in years, are very strong and lustful, and so often times meet with Goats, do run over them, and that the young ones which wild Rams beget of tame Sheep, are color like the sire, and so is their breed after them; and the wool of the first breed is shaggy, but in their after-breed soft and tender.
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"It has been long known to shepherds, though questioned by naturalists, that the progeny of the cross between the sheep and goat is fertile. Breeds of this mixed race are numerous in the north of Europe." Nothing appears to be known of such hybrids either in Scandinavia or in Italy; but Professor Giglioli of Florence has kindly given me some useful references to works in which they are described. The following extract from his letter is very interesting: "I need not tell you that there being such hybrids is now generally accepted as a fact. Buffon (Supplements, tom. iii. p. 7, 1756) obtained one such hybrid in 1751 and eight in 1752. Sanson (La Culture, vol. vi. p. 372, 1865) mentions a case observed in the Vosges, France. Geoff. St. Hilaire (Hist. Nat. Gén. des reg. org., vol. iii. p. 163) was the first to mention, I believe, that in different parts of South America the ram is more usually crossed with the she-goat than the sheep with the he-goat. The well-known 'pellones' of Chile are produced by the second and third generation of such hybrids (Gay, 'Hist, de Chile,' vol. i. p. 466, Agriculture, 1862). Hybrids bred from goat and sheep are called 'chabin' in French, and 'cabruno' in Spanish. In Chile such hybrids are called 'carneros lanudos'; their breeding inter se appears to be not always successful, and often the original cross has to be recommenced to obtain the proportion of three-eighths of he-goat and five-eighths of sheep, or of three-eighths of ram and five-eighths of she-goat; such being the reputed best hybrids.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Darwinism_by_Alfred_Walla...
Much more surprising is that people have reportedly successfully created hybrids [1] between chickens (family Phasianidae) and guinea fowl (family Numididae), which diverged around 50 million years ago [2].
Note that http://timetree.org is a beautiful service for finding out how closely related two species are (in evolutionary time).
[0] http://www.timetree.org/index.php?taxon_a=Ovis+aries&taxon_b...
[1] http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/2592/is-sexual-re...
[2] http://www.timetree.org/index.php?taxon_a=Gallus+gallus&taxo...
I was really confused for a second there.
Also, different breeds of dogs are considered the same species (and likewise with cats).
[1] http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/89/44/91/PDF/hal-008...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolutionary_genetics#Div...
"A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?"
http://phys.org/news/2013-07-chimp-pig-hybrid-humans.html
from the article:
" I asked McCarthy if he could give a date estimate for the hybridization event, he said that there are a couple broad possibilities: (1) It might be that hybridization between pigs and apes produced the earliest hominids millions of years ago and that subsequent mating within this hybrid swarm eventually led to the various hominid types and to modern humans; (2) separate crosses between pigs and apes could have produced separate hominids (and there's even a creepy possibility that hybridization might even still be occurring in regions where Sus and Pan still seem to come into contact, like Southern Sudan)."
It's quite telling that in this era of abundant genetic data, this guy bases all of his arguments on anatomical similarities and says nothing about genetics. It's all but impossible that a link like what he's suggesting would have been overlooked if pigs had made any significant contribution to the human genome. (Just for example, we've got all sorts of estimates of species divergence dates among primates based on genetic data that should have given nonsensical results if there had been massive influxes of pig DNA in the middle of that history.)
While goats and sheep diverged 8 million years ago, humans/chimps and pigs diverged 80 million years ago. The last time a proto-chimp got with a proto-pig, the T-Rex hadn't evolved yet. While goats and sheep have a difference of 6 chromosomes, chimps and pigs have a difference of 10. McCarthy, despite being a geneticist, makes his absurd claim without even discussing the genetic difficulties.
What little similarity there is between humans and pigs is simply a case of convergent evolution.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/07/02/the-mfap-hypot...
No mystical powers though.
Wondering if they pronounce 'geep' as "gee eep" or "jeep".
Yes, they're called "hats" or "corses".
Similar deal (not so much the slippery genome) for horses and housecats. I think you're confusing breeds with species.
I'm ignorant about most things farm-related, but maybe someone knows what rules apply to meat coming from unusual mixes? I assume it's harmless to eat it, but would it be legal to sell?
Food is a distant second...
quoting: "Darwinism – An Exposition Of The Theory Of Natural Selection With Some Of Its Applications (1889)"
"It has been long known to shepherds, though questioned by naturalists, that the progeny of the cross between the sheep and goat is fertile. Breeds of this mixed race are numerous in the north of Europe.""
For the record, I still think my spelling is better...
Given that the top comment in the thread is a relevant (and deservedly upvoted) quotation from a late-Renaissance text, I'd say we're doing pretty well here.
I certainly found it interesting that this sort of thing is possible in nature. Other's mileage may vary but that's what the voting process is for, no?
theres no way this is real, right?
Seriously interesting though how closely related are the two species?
Is that similar here? Are there traits in modern goats or sheep that came from the other?
[1] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.ht...
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/science/another-genetic-qu...
"A DNA study has concluded that some Neanderthals also had red hair, although the mutation responsible for this differs from that which causes red hair in modern humans."
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/04/neandertals-gave-europe...
Please don't claim things on or about Hacker News that you can't possibly know are true. Concerns about dead comments and anything else about HN can be sent to hn@ycombinator.com.
Edit: I deleted things that were too harsh.
eps was obviously trying to be helpful to lacero. If lacero was hell-banned, he wouldn't know it to email you, would he? And for his trouble he gets this mean reply from you.
A better way for eps to help lacero, if that's all he or she wanted to do, would have been to email and ask us to check why lacero's comment was dead. We would have replied with a thank-you note saying what the reason was and that we had restored all the comments in question. But it doesn't feel to me like helping others is the only agenda going on with comments like eps's, which as you may know are something of a cottage industry on HN.
How you're "going to be treated by the new moderators" is with as much fairness and clarity as we can possibly muster, and willingness to correct our mistakes.
Yes I understand there needs to be a balance to avoid an arms race with spammers and the like.
2. You can nitpick on technicalities, but it doesn't matter to lacero if he was hell-banned or ip-blacklisted. All that matters is that his comments go in trash can and that's what I was trying to rectify.
PS. A proper way to support these cases is to add "flag for mod review" option to dead comments and/or user accounts. Unlike the email option, it would be actually usable for everyone. Until then I will keep posting "hell-banned" when I see an account with auto-killed, but otherwise reasonable comments. Have a nice weekend.
It's not just nitpicking. We've gotten many emails from distressed users asking why they were banned because they believed this misinformation. Usually it's nothing more than a duplicate comment that got killed, or something nearly as innocuous.
Edit: I thought about this overnight and I do think there's some merit to your proposal. (I don't buy the thing about email not being accessible enough, but that's separate.) It would need some careful design thinking—something I haven't had a minute for all week—so don't expect anything right away.
Shame on you, Daniel.
Not even kidding! :D
