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0 pointskordless12y ago0 comments

I hear that you are questioning whether other's desires to reach enlightenment is right for you or not. To answer that, I'm going to point out you made two you/blaming statements in your comment. Bear with me here, I'm not attacking you.

The first blaming statement is "who would want to stop thinking?". Logically this parses into asking a generalized question of whether there exists anyone at all who would want to 'stop thinking'. It seems obvious to me, based on personal observation, that I am someone that wants to "stop" my thinking process now and again.

Given I'm one person who desires this, your question then turns into this question: "why would kordless want to stop thinking". I can answer that quickly: I periodically enjoy damping the chatter that goes on non-stop in my brain while I'm awake. I get the most joy out of getting to a place where I'm thinking of nothing and just letting things be the way they are without my input. Now, the conclusion of that is that you might agree that I have the right to make this a rational choice, or you may not. The only way I could tell you meant one over the other is if you told me that already - which you did! The 'tell' was that you 'agree' with jostmey's statement that he "doesn't want to experience" it right before you ask the leading/blaming question.

For me, that indicates you don't agree with my choice to 'stop thinking'. And that is a blaming statement because it's my choice to make, not yours. :) A better way to put it would be "I'd like to understand why someone would want to stop thinking. I'm not sure I want it for myself and I have no data from anyone I know that helps me understand why I would." Or something along those lines. Those statements are more inline with being present and being receptive to other's thoughts.

The second blaming statement is "I'm sure we'll be told". That point is easier to make because clearly until someone says "trekky1700, you simply don't understand" (a blaming statement in and of itself) it won't be truthful statement. Even if they did that, they'd be wrong for doing it. Your blaming statement indicates you are expecting (simulating?) someone coming in and making their own blaming statements.

I learned about all this via exposure to non violent communications (NVC), which has it's roots in Buddhism. It's also why I bothered to write all of it in the first place. Listening and hearing others is the most effective when you turn down the volume of your own brain!

I hope I didn't make any blaming statements in my comment. I still screw it up at times...but I mean well.

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3 comments · 1 top-level

Dylan1680712y ago· 2 in thread

Are blaming statements inherently a problem? It seems quite intentional to imply that certain activities are negative. I see the second blaming statement in particular as a combination of harmless venting, and warning away anyone that would butt in to provide a shallow explanation that isn't backed by understanding.

Now back to the first statement, I'll go to an extreme to provide an example. I would feel contempt toward a person that prefers to sleep 23 hours of the day rather than spend some of that time on productive activities. It is their right to do so if they desire, but I would not be ashamed to judge such a behavior. Is there a downside to my blaming here?

As to meditation, it seems like the description of 'stop thinking' is misleading, which is the source of the confusion, and what leads to the blaming tone. But if I'm right about that, then no actual person is being blamed, only an accidental strawman. But that will take some clarification to figure out. So: when you 'stop thinking' how long does that state last, and how does it affect your thoughts afterward? Does it matter how long you spend in that state?

kordlessOP12y ago

I believe the general idea is to allow choice in others. You don't have to agree with them, as that is your choice, but you should at least entertain their choice: hear them. Many things in our history were considered negative at first and were later adopted as the norm. I agree that venting is necessary, but understanding why you are venting is more important. Fears, interest, boredom, love. Those emotions drive us all, but few understand how they make us think.

There is no downside to your behavior in forming an opinion of another being. If someone is depressed, they have unresolved issues. If they choose this for themselves, well, that's their choice. If you perceive you can help them, it makes more sense you work on getting to the unresolved issues instead of telling them to do something they already know they shouldn't do - sleep 23 hours a day. Whether you want to dig into someone's nasty problems is up to you and your level of interest in the subject.

Yes, confusion frequently leads to blaming. I wasn't trying to indicate I was being blamed, and only used it as an example to prove a larger point: slowing or stopping your thinking opens you up to observation. Listening is a powerful thing.

trekky170012y ago

I think there was a little confusion in there, I do practice meditation. It has been shown to provide valuable benefits.

What I suppose I didn't understand was why someone would want to achieve the cessation state, where they literally cease to exist. It sounds, simply from a clinical standpoint, like some kind of adverse symptom or effect on the brain being misinterpreted as a stage of something spiritual.

I can certainly see the meaning it might have to those who believe it's something more. But for those who don't hold these beliefs, it seems rather pointless. I guess the answer to my "blaming statement" would be "those who are spiritual and believe it is good would want to". To each their own, and while I don't share these beliefs, I needn't be so blunt when expressing differing opinions, I was out of line.

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