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0 pointsdoktrin12y ago0 comments

If I understand the parent correctly, he agrees with a certain Thomas Szasz' [1] opinions on psychiatry. Central among his opinions is the assertion that mental illness is a "myth" due to the lack of observable changes at the cellular level (or at autopsy), and that mental illness patients are "malingerers".

My opinion : the dude sounds like an ass and his opinions are eye-rolling.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz

0 comments

einhverfr12y ago

Mental illness is a really tough thing to discuss in an objective way. See the debates about the DSM-5. I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed.

This being said, the experiences relating to mental illness are very real. The larger question is how we make sense of them as a society. For something like depression how much of the illness is cognitive? How much is biological? How much is social? Somehow that last question never gets asked.

doktrinOP12y ago

> I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed.

> This being said, the experiences relating to mental illness are very real.

What's the logical basis for this pair of assertions? How can the "experience" be real while the illness is not?

einhverfr12y ago

> What's the logical basis for this pair of assertions? How can the "experience" be real while the illness is not?

What is the difference in value between a $5 bill and a $20 bill? Is this difference not both real and socially constructed?

I.e. why do you assume that what is socially constructed can't be real?

The question is, really, what goes into the experience and what are the limits to the current science. If it is socially constructed, the science is limited to the current cultural context.

doktrinOP12y ago

> I.e. why do you assume that what is socially constructed can't be real?

I'm assuming you wouldn't say "pneumonia is socially constructed". If you did, I would read that as "pneumonia isn't real".

> The question is, really, what goes into the experience and what are the limits to the current science. If it is socially constructed, the science is limited to the current cultural context.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.

1 more reply

Mz12y ago

That last is very hard to ask because the vast majority of people are raised with either a guilt or shame model, thus asking it comes across as finger pointing.

Anyway, I need to go so cannot elaborate.

einhverfr12y ago

It's not a question of finger pointing so much as asking what social structures we have that make this harder.

You mentioned your kids live with you. How hard would it be if they didn't? Does the fact that we stigmatize adults living with their parents and make mental illness into an individual problem contribute to it?

Mz12y ago

People who are raised with a shame or guilt model will read fingerpointing into what you say whether it is there or not.

Given the problems I have, if they did not live with me, I likely would have died already.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

einhverfr12y ago

Mental illness is a really tough thing to discuss in an objective way. See the debates about the DSM-5. I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed.

doktrinOP12y ago

> I personally think mental health and mental illness are socially constructed.

> This being said, the experiences relating to mental illness are very real.

What's the logical basis for this pair of assertions? How can the "experience" be real while the illness is not?

einhverfr12y ago

> What's the logical basis for this pair of assertions? How can the "experience" be real while the illness is not?

What is the difference in value between a $5 bill and a $20 bill? Is this difference not both real and socially constructed?

I.e. why do you assume that what is socially constructed can't be real?

The question is, really, what goes into the experience and what are the limits to the current science. If it is socially constructed, the science is limited to the current cultural context.

doktrinOP12y ago

> I.e. why do you assume that what is socially constructed can't be real?

I'm assuming you wouldn't say "pneumonia is socially constructed". If you did, I would read that as "pneumonia isn't real".

> The question is, really, what goes into the experience and what are the limits to the current science. If it is socially constructed, the science is limited to the current cultural context.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.

1 more reply

Mz12y ago

That last is very hard to ask because the vast majority of people are raised with either a guilt or shame model, thus asking it comes across as finger pointing.

Anyway, I need to go so cannot elaborate.

einhverfr12y ago

It's not a question of finger pointing so much as asking what social structures we have that make this harder.

Mz12y ago

People who are raised with a shame or guilt model will read fingerpointing into what you say whether it is there or not.

Given the problems I have, if they did not live with me, I likely would have died already.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse