First Bitcoin ATM (opens in new tab)

(robocoinkiosk.com)

63 pointsPro_bity12y ago41 comments

41 comments

37 comments · 10 top-level

pedalpete12y ago· 7 in thread

Why is this machine always asking for the users fingerprints? Doesn't that break the anonymity of bitcoin?

My understanding is that it's to comply with money-laundering laws. They limit the size of the transaction per-day and per-person.

I haven't bought bitcoins (online or through an ATM), but it seems any purchase of bitcoins from any electronic money transfer would have the same issue of breaking anonymity. I suppose there are ways to anonymize the funds once you have them.

nwh12y ago

This is it really. There's a limit to the amount of cash they can do per person per day, and this is a way to ensure people don't go over the limit.

colinloretz12y ago

It doesn't seem like the scanner is required for these machines and it does so using palm-vein scanning, not fingerprints. They are doing so to prevent any single user from withdrawing over a legal limit in a day.

"If enabled, the Palm Vein Scanner can limit a user's daily transaction amount by taking a unique, anonymous (no fingerprints) infrared picture of a customer's blood vessels to assist in AML compliance."

thaumasiotes12y ago

It's difficult to argue that information which is specifically used to uniquely identify you is "anonymous".

betterunix12y ago

What anonymity of Bitcoin? Nothing in the design of Bitcoin protects anonymity, nor is it a clearly stated security goal.

csomar12y ago

I think they are trying to avoid fraud. Since they seem to be limiting to amount you can withdraw, they probably need some way to authenticate you.

lukerohde12y ago

Not to mention that that is associated with a government ID and a photo. Why not just use a bank account...?

1 more reply

dobbsbob12y ago· 6 in thread

I live a block away from this machine and won't be using it because of nonsense biometric data harvesting. Why do I need to scan my ID, picture and fingerprints to trade a small amount of bitcoins? I will continue to use the Russian guy who hangs out at a Robson St cafe and doesn't want my biometric data.

hristov12y ago

Wait, are you saying that there are now street bitcoin traders? This reminds of communist times when the government limited foreign currency trading. There was a specific coffee house where you could go and illicitly trade foreign currency.

robflynn12y ago

Indeed there are! Here's a short Wired article I saw about the concept a few months back: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/

One of my clients actually said to me, at the closing of a project: "I don't know if you take bit coins, but I'm gonna go see my bitcoin guy in a few. I don't like to buy online. Anyway, if you want to be paid in bit coins, let me know! Otherwise I'll drop the check in the mail tomorrow."

(that's paraphrased a bit, as I cannot remember the exact wording, but the meat of the quote is the same.)

ksrm12y ago

Of course. see e.g. https://localbitcoins.com

james4k12y ago

I can't help but think on how that reflects on current government.

randywaterhouse12y ago

I'll even just go to LocalBitcoins if I want the anonymity (at a premium, but that's a cost of doing business without a fully FINRA-compliant broker, of course LBC is a marketplace so it has no business being compliant).

And if I don't want the anonymity premium these guys make it sound like it's difficult to do instant trades... Meanwhile I've got Coinbase on Instant Trade up to 10 BTC per day, and other exchanges have similar options (if you choose to verify with ID/Bank Info/etc).

sfjailbird12y ago

> Why do I need to scan my ID, picture and fingerprints

You don't, this one just scans your palm, which seems a lot easier than the runaround necessary to create an online account anywhere.

Since there are no 'palm databases' linking your palm to your identity, seems pretty anonymous too. It is only to ostensibly prevent any one user from going over the daily transaction limit. (As an aside I personally don't see anonymity as a big issue most of the time anyway).

whalesalad12y ago· 4 in thread

Just got this error when hitting the site. I guess node isn't the end-all-be-all magic bullet for scalability everyone thinks it is?

    Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html'
        at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18)
        at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15)
        at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9)
        at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8)
        at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10)
        at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7)
        at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9)
        at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37)
        at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11)
        at pass (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5)

crindy12y ago

Acting like this site is proof that node doesn't scale is just plain silly.

Tarang12y ago

This error isn't from node rather the OS has a limit on the number of files than can be open at once. The same limit would apply for another language/stack

est12y ago

too many open files, Ubuntu has default /proc/sys/fs/file-max of 1024.

It's an SA problem, not dev problem.

pkhamre12y ago

If SA and dev had a great cooperation from an early point, the developer would have told the SA about the platform requirements.

wcummings12y ago· 4 in thread

Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html' at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18) at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15) at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9) at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8) at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10) at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7) at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9) at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37) at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11) at pss (/home/ubtuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5)

Idiots.......

camus212y ago

> too many open files

I thought nodejs magically webscales ? /sarcasm

sidenote : please ditch this horrible unreadable font in the text body.that's fine for a few headers but , Swap it with the serif font you are using in the subtitles.

wcummings12y ago

Probably just hitting the fd-per-process ulimit

blackysky12y ago

readFileSync ... not good not good .... nodejs is sexier async ;)

wcummings12y ago

node.js is sexier when it doesn't serve stacktraces in production. Plus async files reads still happen in an internal threadpool (one thread per core, hardcoded, IIRC) so it's pretty easy to saturate that anyway, you should be caching static assets.

2 more replies

typicalrunt12y ago· 4 in thread

While I'm happy to see the world's first anything happen in my hometown of Vancouver, I do question why Vancouver was chosen over San Fran, Portland or New York. Those cities seem more fit for World's First. Even if its a Canadian market they are targeting, Toronto is our financial centre and would make a better choice for this currency.

yafujifide12y ago

Perhaps because San Fran, Portland and New York are in the US, which has more onerous regulations.

querulous12y ago

I think it's as simple as their first (operational) customer happens to be based in Vancouver.

trevorcreech12y ago

Yup, the ATM is being operated by a Vancouver Bitcoin store called http://www.bitcoiniacs.com

cbhl12y ago

"FINTRAC told LibertyBit in an email that it was not considered a Money Service Business, which would require registering with FINTRAC. The agency told LibertyBit that since the transfer of funds is a corollary of its actual service of trading virtual currency, it need not register."

tl;dr: Less regulatory burden in Canada.

(Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-ta...)

lucb1e12y ago· 2 in thread

I think this is like the second or third "first" ATM, though.

gkop12y ago

Yup. For example, the Internet Archive in SF launched what they call a bitcoin ATM back in March. [1] [2]

[1] http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter...

[2] http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-...

yodasan12y ago

That is pretty awesome, although, I believe "an honor-based converter box" is a far cry from an ATM.

lastres0rt12y ago

A couple guys at DEF CON this past year brought a coin-operated Bitcoin converter -- US currency goes in, QR codes full of crypto come out.

I'm holding onto my souvenir bitcoin (worth $0.25 at time of transaction) as long as I can.

Gregordinary12y ago

In January or February a group in New Hampshire showed off a Bitcoin ATM for US Dollars, though I don't think it was ready for full scale production. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-...

Looks like they've since updated and now have one that accepts notes from over 200 countries: https://lamassu.is/

ken4712y ago

As the popularity of bitcoin continues to grow, I think bitcoin owners will appreciate the degree of liquidity this offers. The bitcoin ecosystem needs something like this.

tux12y ago

All I see is > The connection was interrupted. Just like real ATM ^_^

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

41 comments

37 comments · 10 top-level

pedalpete12y ago· 7 in thread

Why is this machine always asking for the users fingerprints? Doesn't that break the anonymity of bitcoin?

paulgb12y ago

My understanding is that it's to comply with money-laundering laws. They limit the size of the transaction per-day and per-person.

nwh12y ago

This is it really. There's a limit to the amount of cash they can do per person per day, and this is a way to ensure people don't go over the limit.

colinloretz12y ago

thaumasiotes12y ago

It's difficult to argue that information which is specifically used to uniquely identify you is "anonymous".

betterunix12y ago

What anonymity of Bitcoin? Nothing in the design of Bitcoin protects anonymity, nor is it a clearly stated security goal.

csomar12y ago

I think they are trying to avoid fraud. Since they seem to be limiting to amount you can withdraw, they probably need some way to authenticate you.

lukerohde12y ago

Not to mention that that is associated with a government ID and a photo. Why not just use a bank account...?

1 more reply

dobbsbob12y ago· 6 in thread

hristov12y ago

robflynn12y ago

Indeed there are! Here's a short Wired article I saw about the concept a few months back: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood/

(that's paraphrased a bit, as I cannot remember the exact wording, but the meat of the quote is the same.)

ksrm12y ago

Of course. see e.g. https://localbitcoins.com

james4k12y ago

I can't help but think on how that reflects on current government.

randywaterhouse12y ago

sfjailbird12y ago

> Why do I need to scan my ID, picture and fingerprints

You don't, this one just scans your palm, which seems a lot easier than the runaround necessary to create an online account anywhere.

whalesalad12y ago· 4 in thread

Just got this error when hitting the site. I guess node isn't the end-all-be-all magic bullet for scalability everyone thinks it is?

    Error: EMFILE, too many open files '/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/views/index.html'
        at Object.fs.openSync (fs.js:427:18)
        at fs.readFileSync (fs.js:284:15)
        at View.exports.renderFile [as engine] (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/ejs/lib/ejs.js:312:9)
        at View.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/view.js:75:8)
        at Function.app.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/application.js:504:10)
        at ServerResponse.res.render (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/response.js:753:7)
        at exports.index (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/routes/index.js:8:9)
        at callbacks (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:161:37)
        at param (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:135:11)
        at pass (/home/ubuntu/robocoin/robocoin-website/node_modules/express/lib/router/index.js:142:5)

crindy12y ago

Acting like this site is proof that node doesn't scale is just plain silly.

Tarang12y ago

This error isn't from node rather the OS has a limit on the number of files than can be open at once. The same limit would apply for another language/stack

est12y ago

too many open files, Ubuntu has default /proc/sys/fs/file-max of 1024.

It's an SA problem, not dev problem.

pkhamre12y ago

If SA and dev had a great cooperation from an early point, the developer would have told the SA about the platform requirements.

wcummings12y ago· 4 in thread

Idiots.......

camus212y ago

> too many open files

I thought nodejs magically webscales ? /sarcasm

sidenote : please ditch this horrible unreadable font in the text body.that's fine for a few headers but , Swap it with the serif font you are using in the subtitles.

wcummings12y ago

Probably just hitting the fd-per-process ulimit

blackysky12y ago

readFileSync ... not good not good .... nodejs is sexier async ;)

wcummings12y ago

2 more replies

typicalrunt12y ago· 4 in thread

yafujifide12y ago

Perhaps because San Fran, Portland and New York are in the US, which has more onerous regulations.

querulous12y ago

I think it's as simple as their first (operational) customer happens to be based in Vancouver.

trevorcreech12y ago

Yup, the ATM is being operated by a Vancouver Bitcoin store called http://www.bitcoiniacs.com

cbhl12y ago

tl;dr: Less regulatory burden in Canada.

(Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039347/canadian-regulator-ta...)

lucb1e12y ago· 2 in thread

I think this is like the second or third "first" ATM, though.

gkop12y ago

Yup. For example, the Internet Archive in SF launched what they call a bitcoin ATM back in March. [1] [2]

[1] http://blog.archive.org/2013/03/05/bitcoin-to-cash-converter...

[2] http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-...

yodasan12y ago

That is pretty awesome, although, I believe "an honor-based converter box" is a far cry from an ATM.

lastres0rt12y ago

A couple guys at DEF CON this past year brought a coin-operated Bitcoin converter -- US currency goes in, QR codes full of crypto come out.

I'm holding onto my souvenir bitcoin (worth $0.25 at time of transaction) as long as I can.

Gregordinary12y ago

Looks like they've since updated and now have one that accepts notes from over 200 countries: https://lamassu.is/

ken4712y ago

As the popularity of bitcoin continues to grow, I think bitcoin owners will appreciate the degree of liquidity this offers. The bitcoin ecosystem needs something like this.

tux12y ago

All I see is > The connection was interrupted. Just like real ATM ^_^

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse