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0 pointscontingencies12y ago0 comments

Interesting premise, for sure.

Personally I don't buy the "things were worse back then" argument, because I travel between many societies and live longer term in quite a few of them. It's clear to me that before the industrial revolution the quality of life in many societies was excellent as attested by their art, oral or written literature, numerous annual festivals, etc. They weren't doing 9-5 with an hour commute either side and numerous government, insurance, bank, and other related chores. Sure, their diets were less sophisticated and closer to the seasons. Sure, the products available were limited. But there was freshness and quality, social security, time and freedom!

I do see the argument being accepted by many westerners, though. Perhaps understandably if we are sort of taught in a way (IMHO) that skips over the great evils of the industrial revolution (and subsequent wars) like they never happened and asked to be happy and complacent in our modern consumer/automobile culture: great things that have liberated us from the dark ages of times past!

It is said that the Dark Ages followed the collapse of the Roman Empire. What shall follow peak oil and the global neocolonial consumer culture?

Because we have the internet, are we educated? Perhaps less so: at least in those times, the people could live from the land, perhaps even move if the situation warranted it. No longer: there is a global conspiracy of governments seeking to monitor and control our movement.

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waps12y ago

Keep in mind that Italy had 2-3000 artists out of a population of > 5 million. Most artists were rich aristocrats or their proteges. Comparing their lives to today's lower classes ... well yes.

And yes they had time. They had space. That's about all they had though. Sex. With the kids that came of it of course.

What will (eventually) follow the energy glut ? In some ways that's easy to predict and in some ways really hard. 1) cities will operate independently from states 2) there will be some group (ethnic maybe, or religious, or ideological) that will play robbers. Kill and rob, along the roads between cities 3) vast majority of people move back into agriculture 4) at least 80% of the population starve 5) wars about the remaining resources before it runs out, for a century or two before 1-4 start to really happen

Of course this only needs to happen if we do run out of energy, which frankly seems unlikely.

contingenciesOP12y ago

I'm no expert on European history but I do think your example of Italy in such a period, despite the stupendous romance of the western art world for its painterly accomplishments, should probably be viewed as only one pre-modern human situation. Still earlier on and in proximity I think you would find more interesting situations, for example all of the great steppe metalwork (gold, etc.) preserved from the Slavic lands eastwards, bronze work from the eastern Mediterranean, the great art of Central Asia, Iran and India, Tang China, the Zomian region, etc. These places show not only metal work but textiles, architecture and utilitarian objects of beauty that in many cases strongly suggests a common wealth that truly permeated societies.

Re: end of empire energy failure - yeah, I agree a doomsday situation is far-fetched (but don't tell the deep Americans digging bunkers and stocking up on ammo! We may need them yet! ;). Serious systemic reform, on the other hand, is but a certainty... purely a matter of time.

(PS. I love threads like this!)

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