1) Ran a successful professional online poker playing business, actually hired employees and trained them to predictably win.
2) Was one of the main characters in the book The Game (yes, that PUA one).
3) Did polyphasic sleep experiments in earnest (was it a couple months or so?).
4) Had a giant inflatable outdoor pool inside his house, taking up his entire livingroom.
5) Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became more commonplace.
There's probably some much cooler stuff I'm forgetting, but hey it makes perfect sense he'd be part of an island buying crew.
He mentions these and more on this page: http://tynan.com/about
> Maple and marble floors
> Brazilian granite countertops
>Japanese-style tea room in the back complete with rush-reed tatami mats and mulberry shoji screened rear window.
>Golden tin ceiling
>Gold-leafed 10 foot curved section of the wall
>Home theater system with LED projector, 50" screen, and 12" subwoofer.
>Handmade zebrawood desk
>Controllable low-wattage LED lighting system with over 1000 bulbs
Minimalist and focused on what matters indeed.
Has this really become more commonplace since 2008? People have always done this. Even before 2008. Maybe blogging about it is a fairly recent thing, though.
Ages ago, I also had this idea, including posting about it online. But it turns out I'm a dreamer rather than a do-er. Or maybe I'm just too addicted to comfort.
Didn't Jesus do this?
Still, congratulations, I can really relate to how you guys feel.
In case there are more island enthousiasts here:
A widowmaker is a dead tree that could fall, and kill somebody [in the namesake a probably-male logger]; thereby creating a widow.
In finance, "Widowmaker" means one thing: Shorting Japanese Government Bonds (JGB) and inevitably losing money. Because of Japan’s gigantic national debt, and because the Japanese bond rally has gone on so long, investors have called the top in the Japanese bond market for years, only to get impaled.
thanks for clearing it up.
We don't have weird dangerous stuff here except for the politicians and bankers.
Five minutes to shore when the weather is good and your engine starts. Really, please heed my advice and make sure each and every one of you knows how to do basic first aid, I hope you're never going to be in a position to use it but when you do you'll be happy you took the time and trouble. First purchase: a very good first aid kit.
This is all not to piss on your parade but because I lived in a pretty remote area for 2 years and have a little bit of experience that might be relevant to your situation.
They're one of the “five Ws”—a mnemonic list of things you need (or need to keep away from) to survive in the wilderness: water, weather, wigglies (which would include spiders), widowmakers, and wood.
One of the nice things about here in NS is that there are no native spiders or snakes that are dangerous to humans.
The trees can kill you though. My father was almost killed by one back in his short lived forestry career.
But if you're interested in how the scenario you mentioned plays out, read up on some of the history of Sealand:
It's still under the tax jurisdiction of the Province and Country.
How is this different when I replace the word island with acreage or farm?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_Antarctic...
Not quite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil
Some suggested next steps. Get a good aerial survey done, with pictures. This will help in planning, in disputes, and later in figuring out what it looked like before that thing that just happened, happened. Also hire a geologist to do a survey (if they haven't already) and identify all the water flow. You may want to build a cistern to collect fresh water when it rains/snows.
An acquaintance of mine who has a place in the seattle/vancouver area also build a small gauge rail line from the dock to the center of the island where accomodations were. Mostly he's a train nut and that scratched that itch but its great for bringing stuff in before storm season sets in.
+1 on the local visitation. People will drive over there and walk around. In the US you need to put signs posting it as private property if you want to have a hope of charging people with trespass. If you set up a fire pit and a place for your friends to sit around an chat, that it exists will get out and you'll have other people "borrow" it when you aren't there.
Definitely a lot of fun though. I am very jealous :-)
People may visit when you are not there. In the US, the shoreline up to some strangely defined highwater mark (which is higher than you expect) is public. Canada has a similar deal related to crown lands (you may own the island, but the bit under the water, not so much). These visitors have every legal right to hang out, have a picnic, play jarts, whatever.
When you aren't around you will get more visitors. (I have pretty good camera surveillance, mainly to enjoy from afar, but I also get to see the visitors.) These will be bolder and walk around and look at the place.
If you aren't around and the local environment is right, you may get hunters. We get duck hunters and goose hunters. We generally give a few people we know permission and kind of rely on them to discourage anyone else. Hunters are territorial. One year it was posted with "No Hunting" signs nailed to the dock, but not by us or anyone we know, a good attempt by a hunting hacker to secure himself a private hunting area.
Have a medical evac plan. I've used mine in weather that I would probably not have used an Amazon boat.
Have a "pinned down by weather" plan with respect to food and water. I know a couple that was reduced to surviving on popcorn and bloody mary mix for a couple days. Also, know when you are pinned down by weather.
A food digesting composter keeps your trash bags from getting disgusting.
If there is cell coverage, but only for odd carriers, consider an "island phone" that just stays there. If there is no cell coverage, get a VHF that can reach some emergency agency.
I don't mind too much if people respectfully visit the island when we're not there. We told the really awesome neighbor he could visit the island whenever, so maybe he'll guard it a bit. He could certainly see from his dock if another boat was on it.
They ran out of vodka before running out of the mix? Very poor planning.
The mainland neighbor we met was pretty confident no one would ever go to the island without permission. He's lived there his whole life, works as a fisherman in the bay, and has never seen anyone else on it. Even so-- we'll put up signs and not mind too much if people use our fire pit when we're not there.
I like the idea of the water flow survey... would be awesome if we could get fresh water without desalinating.
Maine's liability laws are excellent. They basically say, "So you hurt yourself? And you were wandering around the woods? What part of 'woods' didn't you understand?" So the social conventions in rural Maine provide a certain freedom to wander around unoccupied woodland as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself. Posting your woodland against trespassing was historically considered a bit anti-social in a lot of places.
Nova Scotia appears to have relatively sane rules for liability in wilderness areas: http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/occupier.htm I'd guess that your island probably falls under some combination of 6.1(c) or (d), but it's probably worth asking an actual lawyer.
Have fun with your island! And pay attention to the SAR folks—living on an island is only slightly more dangerous than living anywhere else, but when bad stuff happens, your options may be worse. My childhood best friend once had to make an hour lobster-boat ride with a stick jammed into his throat just below the jaw bone. This experience put an end to his family's island living. Your biggest risk is probably making that 5-minute boat ride in a bad storm.
Jealous as well :)
When I was inviting friends to be a part of this, there was a big divide... half of them LOVED the idea and felt like an island was something special (as I do), and others just saw it as some difficult-to-access land. I've had a tough time articulating exactly why an island seems special to me.
Also most human cultures either grew from river or coastland - the availability of fish and other resources that a large body of water provides is very comforting to us descendants of those peoples at a very basic level, I imagine.
Proof: Would you get excited about a story of someone buying a five acre plot of land with a fence around it? Or a moat-like trench?
So, not counting significant others, ten people sharing a five-acre island. That's 1/2 acre per person except that not all five acres will be flat, buildable land, and you will have to sort out who lives where, without friction.
This works when you're young, before you start thinking about issues like privacy and personal space. By the time you and your friends are 30 years old, the island will likely be a distant and probably bitter memory.
I speak as someone who lived through the 1960s American back-to-the land, communal-living, private-property-is-a-crime phase.
He doesn't seem to be indicating anyone plans to live there permanently...it sounds like it is intended as a getaway, rather than a home. No mention of building gardens, major construction, or dealing with longterm freshwater, garbage and sewer, etc. In other words, he's building a private campground, not a commune.
In this case it's just shared vacation land which is even easier, and they'll each get their own plot. My family of 6 lived on a quarter acre in a suburb and that always felt like plenty of space.
Also, as noted below, none of us are planning on living there full time-- just visiting over the summer, hopefully all at the same time.
Then I envy your youthful outlook. :)
By the time I was 30 I had had enough of communal living for several lifetimes.
Yep. It was:
http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programmi...
Legally all your island really is is a bit of land surrounded by shoreline and that shoreline is the interesting bit. It may automatically be public access or not depending on where you are, you may be accidentally part of some incorporated town and there may be specific rules governing islands.
I would advice against issuing your own passports but if you happen to have an anti-aircraft gun and an old torpedo lying around you could even consider going sovereign.
And once you successfully pull that off you can do whatever you want with your island ;)
The ministry will do periodic inspections of land, and will investigate complaints. The property we purchased had all vegetation removed from the shoreline to expose the natural sand beach. The owner was fined, and forced to lay down landscaping fabric and crushed granite to cover it in order to reduce erosion. The matter was strictly dealt with by Department of Fisheries.
As for septic, you're required to build a field, but permits are easily obtainable. Same goes with putting buildings; permits are (usually) required, but usually attainable relatively easily.
Then again, there are some pretty janky home-made docks in the bay that seem to have been there for a while.
...I have so many, I can't type fast enough!
1. Yeah, we definitely have plans for structures -- yurts, we're actually thinking. 2. Hmm, haven't explored that option. Not sure. 3. Yep - tentatively 5 guests per each owner at a time. 4. Yeah food would definitely be fantastic. 5. We don't have helicopters yet unfortunately, but when we're mad rich sure :)
Five acres is slightly more land than I have (in the exurbs of Toronto), and is almost certainly much more awkward, with less usable space. I mention that because I can't imagine trying to facilitate the desires of 10 different owners on such a plot, and the practical limitations of such a space will become quickly apparent. Notions of being sovereign and all of that seem really strange -- you fall under just as many regulations (if not, in some ways, more) than a plot on the mainland. Assuming that you will fly under the radar is a dangerous gambit.
To visit this place you rely upon the graces of what is to you a foreign country. A simple DUI or possession charge in the US == barred from Canada. And so on.
Totally get the thought (I have bid on various large parcels of land throughout Ontario), though, just think 5 acres is just much too small.
In much of the rural midwest, 5 acres is the _minimum_ plot to build a house on. One single-family house. Five acres was how far we could play as children without going "far". It's 3.78 American football fields.
That said, it's five more acres of island than I own.
Inevitable fights/headaches when one person wants out -- yes, you planned for it, but it's still a hassle.
All the pains of homeownership (leaky roofs, pipes, HVAC problems, etc.) x 1000 due to difficulty of getting a construction crew to the island.
Lack of a police force to enforce basic property rights against squatters/hunters/other "intruders" with different ideas about the meaning of "private propety" than you
Water: is this all being brought to the island, or do you have a plan for on-island desalination? Are you prepared to regularly service the desalination plant and/or haul giant jugs of water to the island constantly?
Medical care: when someone breaks a leg, steps on a sharp stick, etc., where is the nearest hospital?
This article reminds me why we live in a market economy, because tastes and preferences differ, and there's no way I'd buy this, but great if you guys want to.
- Ownership structure. With 10 of you, how have you prepared for people falling out or wanting out?
- What are you allowed to build on it?
- How do you access it? Do you have to pay a boatman to take you out there?
We're going to be building next year, so we still have lots of research to do. It appears that anything permanent like a cabin would require a permit, but that yurts / heavy duty tents / sheds / etc wouldn't.
A neighbor on the mainland has offered us dock space and gave us a couple rides this trip. We also bought an Intex Excursion 5 off Amazon which was serviceable but really difficult to navigate in wind. We'll buy a real boat next year.
HN is throttling my posts, so it may take a while to answer everything. I appreciate all the comments and questions.
Anyone else old enough to mistakenly read this as "island IIc"?
#apple
I've had similar romantic notions about owning an island (we kayak a lot). But the reality is that every vacant island IS your island. There's plenty of islands < 1 hour away that are beautiful and completely uninhabited. Hopefully someday I will come upon yours... sounds nice.
<pessimism>I hope it works out for you but taxes go up, structures get vandalized, local permits are annoying and 10 hours is a long friggen drive. And the fastest way to end a friendship is to joint own something.</pessimism>
the upshot of this is I assumed land north of Toronto is always going to be a good buy for grand children. am I thinking too small?
Just kidding - but really, he's throttled atm. He'll be back to reply to posts when he can!
I always wanted to do something like this as long as I can remember, build something (more or less) self-sustaining in the middle of nowhere to feel fully independent. I am really curious to what extent the author plans on living there? Will there be houses next to the communal building? Solar Panels? A Generator? An on-site well?
It is this Idea of your own small ecosystem which makes Minecraft so attractive. This is real life Minecraft and I hope to do something like this one day.
Edit: Just to add some interesting Project: There is open source hardware for everything you need to build your own village in the "Global Village Construction Set"[1]
---
[1] http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Constructio...
At first it will be a summer-only thing, but we hope over 5-10 years to make it sustainable all year round. We want to use it mainly as a place to work together and get away from cities.
Next summer we will be putting up a 30' yurt, a huge battery bank, and a generator. Water is the hardest, so we'll probably have to catch rain and use a desalinator.
Oh-- we have awesome LTE and 4G coverage there, too!
Speaking from experience, solar panels and car batteries work very well to supply a minimal amount of power for daily use (LED lights, charging cell phones and laptops, etc), but a generator will likely be needed for the occasional heavy equipment use. I'm less of a fan of windmills, but they have their place.
Water is indeed the most important infrastructure element to get right, but the solution you go with often depends heavily with your power choices. It's one thing to leave a desalinization system running 24x7 and maintain it, but it's a whole different story if you need something that can be shut down and restarted several months later. Maintenance and long-term reliability become important factors. Maybe you'll get lucky and find you can drill a well for fresh water, but the size of your island makes me think that is unlikely.
Other fun things to think about: plumbing, septic systems, waste disposal, hot water systems, lights, cooking, and refrigeration.
Then there is always the debate of redundancy vs. simplicity. and the real cost of maintaining an often fragile infrastructure.
I am very curious to hear more about your progresses in building out your island infrastructure and have subscribed to your blog.
I don't know how much knowledge you have about desalinators, but here is a FAQ by the company that makes the reverse osmosis unit that I use at work: http://www.searecovery.com/marine/src_faqs.html Being so close to land, you will need a way to sterilize the water. A UV attachment should work.
I also recommend taking a course in Wilderness First Aid. I took a 70 Hour Wilderness First Responder course by Wilderness Medical Associates. It was an excellent course.
He probably has better coverage than I do.
I live in PEI his neighbor to the north.
You may want to check with the DFO (Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans) on that. Licenses are sold for many types of shellfish and you want have fishers with licenses for crab, clam, oysters etc. near the island. http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shell...
Recently one lobster fisherman (farther off shore) was caught cutting trap lines and the owner of the lines shot him a few times and then ran him over in his boat. Fishing is taken very seriously in this region, it's all some people have done for many generations.
Other than that you should be fine.
Just in general in Nova Scotia you don't need any license for non-commercial fishing in tidal areas (still need to observe bag limits though.) You do need a license for any fishing in fresh waters.
If you're hand picking crabs you're fine. Just don't set any traps or snares, but you might want to check to see if they are safe to eat. Sometimes the close areas for shellfish harvesting due to food safety concerns.
The murder that dhughes is referencing had more to do with it then them just catching someone cutting their lines, there was a long history between the victim and the boat crew.
Getting power, water, sewer made the cost extremely high. Even with Solar/Septic - getting equipment and suplpies was just far too much for me to undertake and afford.
So CONGRATS on succeeding. How much for an 11th person share in the Island?
Have you setup an "infrastructure" fund where all ten of you contribute a monthly amount - and then spend it annually on one big buy for the Island?
I'd recommend you see about purchasing used shipping containers and having them barged over to the island: this will let you store stuff - and if you're crafty enough, there are tons of examples of building housing from them online.
Start planting seeds of edible plants all over the island.
Digging a well might prove to be a bit costly...
There were islands in Palawan fro sale at the time that were uttery perfect for ~$35,000 USD - large enough for a house, had a really nice beach etc...
The problem was that in the northern part of Palawan, you either need to ship from Manilla, or fly stuff in.
The islands were too small/rocky to be able to have a well, so water was an issue - as was power - you'd need to basically have solar/wind/generator (which meant boating in fuel regularly).
So - I don't have exact numbers - but it made buying an Island for ~35K really mean that you'd need ~$250K+ to really accomplish something.
If you just want to rough it, you can lease Crown Land, fees are basically nothing if you're willing to do the paperwork, most leases last from 10-99 years, some of these leases might be open to foreigners (not sure, might need a legitimate business).
Even better start of an amatuer prospecting company, you could probably lease an island the size of manhattan, again for a very low fee. You won't own the land but 99 years is usually enough.
Or you could just drive really far into the bush, no one will notice.
Each province regulates it's own Crown land: BC: http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/link_land.html NB: http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer...
The rest are a short Google away, some more sparse territories like the Yukon and Northwest Territories are more lax than say Ontario.
If you want more solitude, you just take the boat and go out to the more remote ones, there's nothing special or magical or mystical about "owning an island" to me, since that's how I spent my childhood summers.
Then I realized that archipelagos are pretty rare, which keeps the concept out of reach for most people.
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/areas/novascotia/islands...
The cheapest is 29K for 54 acres 2 hours drive from Halifax.
At 5 acres, are you concerned at all about deforesting it too much over time?
Bonus is that you'll get some good maps out of it:)
Nice. You could produce organic goat cheese - island chevre - chèvre de l'île.
[PS Tynan: Hope this HN juice finally gets you accepted into YCombinator.]
Yeah that looks like a tool :)
For the love of Mother Nature, please hook up with a landscape architect so that you make sustainable decisions about where to site buildings, where to cut trails, etc. It doesn't take much vegetation loss to start some nasty erosion.
We're leaving all trees around the edge to prevent erosion, and are clearing very minimally. Will definitely be getting some expert advice before making big decisions, though.
Did you all sign something already that talks about distribution plans if and when one of the group passes away?
Any plans to enforce "no trespassing" when none of the group is there?
Congrats, by the way!
Everyone is expecting to pitch in another $1000-2000 next year to build a communal yurt, battery bank, get a boat, etc.
We're told by locals that trespassing isn't a problem. We could put motion detectors / cameras if necessary, but I doubt it will be.
Thanks!
Also, we did check it out before wiring the money. If it was burnt down or something really bad, we wouldn't have bought it.
Look for Islands with a Hillview, that might work out..
Not five years. Sea level rise at present is about 3 millimeters per year. Over five years that becomes 15 millimeters, or 1.5 centimeters, or about 1/2 inch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
"From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009 ..."
This is not to diminish the seriousness of global warming, only to put it in perspective.
A couple years ago I bought some rural land with the idea that something like this. . . something I think of as "ecosteading" is going to become a trend of sorts. The idea that I'm working on (and have already applied to YC and a bunch of other incubators with) is actually right along this line: a platform for people to buy and sell land, exchange ideas for ecological homesteading, even build out a platform for more intelligent urban planning. When it's done from the "ground up" (literally), there are all kind of future headaches that can be avoided.
Imagine if the Hyperloop or the California high speed rail had been able to be laid down before most of the development around this insanely populated state took place. Population growth is exponential; it's inevitable that we're going to need smarter ways of transporting people and consumables. The key is figuring out where these new hubs of population are going. Like-minded people congregate; and this idea gives them a way to do it with others.
If this sounds like something interesting/exciting, I am kinda sorta looking for people to work with. Research it, tell me what you can offer (it's Rails!) and what you think of what's done so far: https://angel.co/ecosteader (email only please)
Good advice in general too, not just when buying an island.
I also gravitate toward Canada when looking for an island, because you can get fairly large islands for much less money than lets say in the Caribbean. Of course, the climate is a lot less appealing.
I always wonder though, how expensive would it be to get something built on an island? I imagine getting building materials and construction equipment onto a forested island can be tricky and expensive.
It's a bit less remote than an island, seeing as you can take a car into town, and the stray hunter still comes through once in a while.
An Island To Oneself by Tom Neale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Neale http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-Neale/dp/0918024...
Probably one of my favourite books actually.
I've come across 1 thing like this myself, which is a car club, you pay £10k and you get X days per year to drive the cars in their selection but you also own something like 5% of the company that owns the cars. I'd be very interested in other kind of group buying things like this.
Also, definitely look into the permaculture thing. The Zombies Are Coming! and you gotta be prepared. =)
Apparently this one cost less than 100k (which can't even buy an apartment in a crappy place). I shared the link with a couple of friends.
