Do you actually want to hire people who are going to fall for dishonest linkbait like that?
YC companies, I understand that you get to post job ads on HN and they automatically show up on the front page. Great. But please, show some respect to the people you are trying to recruit, and show some respect for this exclusive privilege PG gives you.
If you read the full post[1] you'll see that what they are referring to is the college students at a single university. At this university, apparently, 20% of students signed up at launch, and 30% of those use it daily. Making it more like 6% of students, at one university, who use their app. Probably a little more if you count weekly or monthly users. But still. That, in comparison to what the headline claims (20% of college students, everywhere) is ridiculously inaccurate.
And also, what about Google? Way, way more than 20% of college students use Gmail, Docs, etc. And what about things like Craigslist? It is even claimed that their app can tell you "exactly what you need to get done every day, with no input". No input is qualitatively different than "very little input, but it's really easy and quick."
You can, and should, do better. In addition to misleading people being a mean thing to do (even when effective), it doesn't do you any good to mislead your own future employees, anyway. Geez.
---
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6269664
{company} ({yc season}) looking for {role}
Role should be the actual function title and if applicable mentioning the language-stack (i.e. RoR, node) the candidate should master.
Common objections:
But we're young and hip, we wanna look different from the big companies! - Doesn't matter. Still bad practice.
But we don't like labels. We want generalists. - Then specify that. Asking for a "ninja" or some other nondescript title is retarded.
But we want to say what we do! - That's what the post is for.
YC companies have the exclusive ability to post job ads on the front page. I highly doubt there's any reasonable justification for posting anything aside from a standard template. It's not like you need more help.
"We A/B tested the copy and we got far better results with custom, quirky copy than we did with a standard format. Why should we purposely use a version that people find boring and has been proven to be less effective? If you don't like our job postings, then the job isn't for you anyways."
"Your A/B test demonstrates it's better for you in the short term. Great! Now you're just being dishonest, instead of ineffective and dishonest."
EDIT: That probably sounds harsh. I have nothing against YC companies, this advertising is just something I personally find disagreeable and annoying.
I think that being dishonest is stupid while hiring especially here and for a small start up. You want the elite - treat them like one. A non brain dead person will see through the bullshit in a seconds. So you will be left with second tier candidates.
I can appreciate why there are no comments but also I think it would be interesting to allow direct feedback to job postings.
Anyone else ever thought this, too?
99% of the time it doesn't go well, especially if they are being dishonest.
Either has their pluses and minuses.
Why do they feel that is bad? And have they ever been on on HN job postings (if so how long ago)?
Some more background info. Other issues were:
- outing companies that were still under the radar
- hijacking threads with other job postings
If they say, we're working on X field with some Y tech, but can't discuss details, that's whole 'nother story. With some of these I have no idea what the company is, what it does, why it exists and even why anyone would use them.
If they want to avoid tipping competitors, there better ways of doing that.
I don't know. The whole thing seems silly.
Sucks for the rest of us, though.
It would have actually been more impressive if they weren't so vague .. now they are probably going to turn off a lot of good prospects.
I say this as a YC alum whose 1st job post was fairly ill-advised (though not dishonest). Believe me, it is quite tempting to play around, so I wouldn't be too hard especially on the smaller teams who haven't been recruiting/employing for too long.
They will learn, soon enough. It's also important to note that many teams consist of 17-22 year olds, and as this app is aimed at college students it seems like it could be one of those teams. So cut them some slack.
There have been previous discussions about the state of some YC job ads (though I can't find them right now), so this isn't the first time people have felt compelled to say something.
edit: Link to previous job post discussions (I know there are others but can't dig them up).
Another option would be to simply email the given address and state your complaints. For example that you may have been interested (if you were), but felt mislead by the posting.
It's interesting to think about my own motivations -- I wonder if I would have been gentler if their post hadn't been anonymous. If so, should I have been gentler even though their post was anonymous? Anyway, I apologize if this caused unnecessary hurt, I didn't mean to.
A really good format would be, as another commenter said:
{YC Company} {Season Number} is looking for {Job Title}. Join us!
Bam. Doesn't that just look better? Sexier? More appealing and respectful? You don't have to be 25+ to get that, it just has to be introduced.
So, now that it's the top story on HN, and has been introduced, let's maybe try to codify it for future job postings?
Help us build the mobile app farmers really want https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6266489
It intrigues me a lot more than "FarmLogs (YC sXX) seeks iOS developer". If that was the title, I might think it was some stupid iphone game and ignore it.
But if you click on it, it's a really interesting startup that could help a lot of people not normally helped by technology.
Interestingly, that headline first read "John Deere sucks at software. Help us build the mobile app farmers really want." Someone must have edited it because it is not a good idea to alienate a possible future partner/acquirer. These are new companies, and they are still learning how to handle publicity and marketing. It is also possible that they intended to cause a stir with the controversial headline and generate buzz.
Also, in before the HN cabal muzzles this one.
That being said, I agree it was disingenuous at the least and downright misleading at the worst.
Not by being great programmers and free thinkers, but by being greedy businessmen and, later, buying tons of lobbyists.
This piece of shit company is ... well... just being a normal company.
The problem is these companies are trying to hire top notch talent - the 5% of the population that is least likely to be happy about dishonesty. Especially when it comes to a major decision like a new job. It's simply a mistake and the marketing is unneeded - if you're a YC company, the HN crowd has at least read your announcement in techcrunch and knows what you're trying to do.
Unfortunately, dishonesty sells. How did all the
large megacorporations get to where they are now?
Not by being great programmers and free thinkers,
but by being greedy businessmen and, later, buying
tons of lobbyists.
This piece of shit company is ... well... just being
a normal company.
As far as "dishonesty" in business that is determined many times by when the consensus actions of a particular industry is. Behavior in one industry in many cases means you have to play the same game or perish. Each industry works differently.
[1] Add: In which case a citation would be appropriate.
Big oil doesn't cause global warming because that would make a bunch of rich powerful people bad guys, and they can't have that.
And, sales, marketing, and advertisers aren't sleazy liars because that would make them bad guys, and they can't see that. They can't. It's impossible. Can't be true. No way.
Advertisers are just showing people what they want to see. What they demand to see. They demand to be lied to, so it's okay.
I think that in this case this is
clearly one persons opinion