A London pub now accepts payment in Bitcoin (opens in new tab)

(individualpubs.co.uk)

105 pointsCiaranR13y ago53 comments

53 comments

45 comments · 19 top-level

ValentineC13y ago· 6 in thread

It's a pity that they're still pricing the drink against a fiat currency (in this case, Sterling).

I look forward to a day when I'll be able to pay a consistent 0.05/0.1 BTC for a pint.

dewitt13y ago

> I look forward to a day when I'll be able to pay a consistent 0.05/0.1 BTC for a pint.

The value of a bitcoin will have to become less volatile before that day comes. Compare:

http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

With:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Dollar_Index.png

Yes, the value of the dollar also fluctuates, but over 30 years it has ranged only around 30%. Whereas bitcoin has ranged 4000% in a single year. Not sure any pub would want to accept that volatility, nor would any patron.

celticninja13y ago

i am sure if you knew its value would rise by 4000% you would happily accept them, patron perhaps may not want to spend them though.

CJefferson13y ago

If (as has happened several times before) bitcoin doubled in value against GBP, would you be happy to continue paying the equivalent of double for a pint?

nly13y ago

All their costs are still in Sterling. It takes a long time to complete the circle and break dependence on a particular currency.

mikeash13y ago

In short, they'll price beer in BTC as soon as their suppliers price their beer in BTC.

TomGullen13y ago

They can't price on BTC until Bitcoins have more utility. At the moment the only utility Bitcoins have for the pub owners is to convert into cash so they have to peg them on sterling.

fqsxr13y ago· 5 in thread

Isn't one idea behind Bitcoin anonymity? Then I would blow my identity when I pay in a pub right?

ig113y ago

Bitcoin is the opposite of anonymous, every transaction is available in the public ledger.

You can build anonymity on top of it by using throw away accounts, but it's not an inherent part of the system.

samweinberg13y ago

Exactly, paying with a credit card is more anonymous than paying with Bitcoin. With the former, only the CC company, the merchant, and presumably the government can see what you purchased. With Bitcoin, anyone with a blockchain explorer can see your when and how much you transacted.

1 more reply

Spittie13y ago

While bitcoin can be anonymous (buy with cash, use a mixing service, change your bitcoin address every time, only pay over tor/i2p), they aren't made for that. Also keep in mind that every transaction is public, even if it can't be traced back to you.

See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity for more informations

sliverstorm13y ago

Not only is every transaction public, but the record of that transaction will stay around forever. Or, at least as long as Bitcoin exists, that is.

wittysense13y ago

? You're confusing security with anonymity. The bitcoin mining strategy ensures that transactions are secure, untampered (ID theft? counterfeit bills? credit hijacking?), thus securing anonymity if it is developed (throw away accounts, as said above) when and where needed.

The problem with classical currency is that anyone can spoof anyone else and the system inherently cannot prevent this. Fraud correction is a painstaking manual/organic process involving customer service, account IDs, and headache.

Nursie13y ago· 4 in thread

With only an 8% surcharge!

What was that about low/no processing fees?

CiaranROP13y ago

That's the currency exchange rate he is offering not a transaction fee. The bitcoin transaction itself is free

Nursie13y ago

Except if you actually read the linked page it says that it's at least partially due to the 7% fees have to deal with when converting the BTC back to sterling, which is all they're really interested in.

Add on whatever fees you pay to get hold of the BTC in the first place and you have quite an expensive system.

1 more reply

oleganza13y ago

A lot of Bitcoin holders bought/mined them at much lower prices than current $100. Compare this 7% premium when buying things to a potential 20-30% capital gains tax you'd have give up when cashing out via exchange.

wmf13y ago

BTW, you probably still owe capital gains tax when you buy something with Bitcoin.

3 more replies

CiaranROP13y ago· 3 in thread

The pub is in Hackney - http://www.individualpubs.co.uk/pembury/

I haven't tried it yet but keen to head up there, there is a meetup of the London Bitcoin Group on there this Sunday - http://www.meetup.com/London-bitcoin-meetup/events/122553592...

ig113y ago

The Pembury is very well known in the geek/dev/startup/board gaming community, most of the people who drink there are geeks of one variety or another.

dasil00313y ago

Looks like an excellent beer selection as well.

laumars13y ago

And a "lesser spotted" bar billiards table: http://horshambarbilliards.co.uk/Quickstart/ImageLib/best.jp...

To say I'm tempted to pay a visit to this pub would be an understatement.

samweinberg13y ago· 2 in thread

Not only will accepting Bitcoin help this pub save some money on fees, it is very likely attract some new customers who happen to be Bitcoin enthusiasts. Win-win!

astrodust13y ago

Not only do you get dinged when you exchange Bitcoins peer to peer, but you get hit again when you go to cash out through a broker.

It's an interesting experiment, but don't think there aren't any fees. The nominal amount a credit card company collects is lower.

Nursie13y ago

Did you read the bit about 7% fees, so they charge around an 8% premium?

I don't deny they'll get some new trade, but it's not really saving anyone anything.

kryten13y ago· 2 in thread

Writing up the accounting and distributing tax for that must be a bugger.

danw13y ago

I think bitcoins just count as assets

ValentineC13y ago

They probably get taxed as income at the point they're converted into Sterling. (I'm not an accountant or lawyer.)

Does anyone think Bitcoin might gain greater adoption if more accountants and lawyers knew how to advise their clients?

1 more reply

jarek13y ago· 1 in thread

Also, some places accept Canadian Tire Money! At par!

dubcanada13y ago

lol Oh Canadian Tire money.

zende13y ago· 1 in thread

It's interesting to hear about offline merchants accepting bitcoins. I wonder how much of it has to do with the fixed card processing fees as a component of the small transaction size.

The goal would seem to be when the restaurant can pay their bills in bitcoins, so they never have to convert it to a fiat currency at all.

kamkazemoose13y ago

I also wonder how much of it is novelty/PR. This move gets a lot more people talking about them, and you'll get some people who just want to spend bitcoins in meatspace.

loaristys13y ago· 1 in thread

Strange that such a budget website would accept bitcoins.

theoh13y ago

It's not "budget", it's a computer scientist's idea of minimal markup. Like the first google search page. See story here: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/17/london-bitcoi...

AndrewDucker13y ago· 1 in thread

How long do you have to wait for confirmation/

bdamm13y ago

When I've made bitcoin payments, confirmations have usually reached a sufficient threshold in 30 seconds or less. That doesn't mean that your transaction has made it into the blockchain, only that enough servers have validated that your transaction is good based on their state and that they will hold your transaction until it is in the blockchain.

fredley13y ago

Also in Cambridge at the Haymakers:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Business/Business-News/Use-v...

ijager13y ago

De Waag in Delft, The Netherlands also accepts Bitcoin: http://www.de-waag.nl/Stadscafe/Bitcoin (Dutch)

It's great to see people experimenting with Bitcoin. I'd love to see it develop further as a currency.

bergie13y ago

Not too bad, but in my neighbourhood there are several that accept BitCoin:

http://bitcoinhood.wordpress.com/

Here is the sticker to look for: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/9065253249/

dataduck13y ago

I can confirm from first hand experience that, regardless of the quality of the Bitcoin transaction experience, the quality of the beer here is absolutely top notch. Also the food is very good and they have a pretty decent selection of board games behind the bar. Highly recommended if you can endure the trek out to Hackney - if you're interested in checking the pub out, you won't be disappointed.

lepunk13y ago

i think this is the moment when we can say that bitcoin became a real currency. [imo a currency is something what you can use to buy beer]

triplesec13y ago

IT's a chain of 4 pubs in 4 cities, as is apparent if you oh so cunningly go to the root URL

magoon13y ago

The fact that this is news sheds light on how obscure Bitcoin is as currency.

alex_doom13y ago

Jesus that's so simple... But I think I'll stick with cash.

mattbarrie13y ago

Prepare to be extradited!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

53 comments

45 comments · 19 top-level

ValentineC13y ago· 6 in thread

It's a pity that they're still pricing the drink against a fiat currency (in this case, Sterling).

I look forward to a day when I'll be able to pay a consistent 0.05/0.1 BTC for a pint.

dewitt13y ago

> I look forward to a day when I'll be able to pay a consistent 0.05/0.1 BTC for a pint.

The value of a bitcoin will have to become less volatile before that day comes. Compare:

http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

With:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Dollar_Index.png

celticninja13y ago

i am sure if you knew its value would rise by 4000% you would happily accept them, patron perhaps may not want to spend them though.

CJefferson13y ago

If (as has happened several times before) bitcoin doubled in value against GBP, would you be happy to continue paying the equivalent of double for a pint?

nly13y ago

All their costs are still in Sterling. It takes a long time to complete the circle and break dependence on a particular currency.

mikeash13y ago

In short, they'll price beer in BTC as soon as their suppliers price their beer in BTC.

TomGullen13y ago

They can't price on BTC until Bitcoins have more utility. At the moment the only utility Bitcoins have for the pub owners is to convert into cash so they have to peg them on sterling.

fqsxr13y ago· 5 in thread

Isn't one idea behind Bitcoin anonymity? Then I would blow my identity when I pay in a pub right?

ig113y ago

Bitcoin is the opposite of anonymous, every transaction is available in the public ledger.

You can build anonymity on top of it by using throw away accounts, but it's not an inherent part of the system.

samweinberg13y ago

1 more reply

Spittie13y ago

See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity for more informations

sliverstorm13y ago

Not only is every transaction public, but the record of that transaction will stay around forever. Or, at least as long as Bitcoin exists, that is.

wittysense13y ago

Nursie13y ago· 4 in thread

With only an 8% surcharge!

What was that about low/no processing fees?

CiaranROP13y ago

That's the currency exchange rate he is offering not a transaction fee. The bitcoin transaction itself is free

Nursie13y ago

Add on whatever fees you pay to get hold of the BTC in the first place and you have quite an expensive system.

1 more reply

oleganza13y ago

wmf13y ago

BTW, you probably still owe capital gains tax when you buy something with Bitcoin.

3 more replies

CiaranROP13y ago· 3 in thread

The pub is in Hackney - http://www.individualpubs.co.uk/pembury/

I haven't tried it yet but keen to head up there, there is a meetup of the London Bitcoin Group on there this Sunday - http://www.meetup.com/London-bitcoin-meetup/events/122553592...

ig113y ago

The Pembury is very well known in the geek/dev/startup/board gaming community, most of the people who drink there are geeks of one variety or another.

dasil00313y ago

Looks like an excellent beer selection as well.

laumars13y ago

And a "lesser spotted" bar billiards table: http://horshambarbilliards.co.uk/Quickstart/ImageLib/best.jp...

To say I'm tempted to pay a visit to this pub would be an understatement.

samweinberg13y ago· 2 in thread

Not only will accepting Bitcoin help this pub save some money on fees, it is very likely attract some new customers who happen to be Bitcoin enthusiasts. Win-win!

astrodust13y ago

Not only do you get dinged when you exchange Bitcoins peer to peer, but you get hit again when you go to cash out through a broker.

It's an interesting experiment, but don't think there aren't any fees. The nominal amount a credit card company collects is lower.

Nursie13y ago

Did you read the bit about 7% fees, so they charge around an 8% premium?

I don't deny they'll get some new trade, but it's not really saving anyone anything.

kryten13y ago· 2 in thread

Writing up the accounting and distributing tax for that must be a bugger.

danw13y ago

I think bitcoins just count as assets

ValentineC13y ago

They probably get taxed as income at the point they're converted into Sterling. (I'm not an accountant or lawyer.)

Does anyone think Bitcoin might gain greater adoption if more accountants and lawyers knew how to advise their clients?

1 more reply

jarek13y ago· 1 in thread

Also, some places accept Canadian Tire Money! At par!

dubcanada13y ago

lol Oh Canadian Tire money.

zende13y ago· 1 in thread

It's interesting to hear about offline merchants accepting bitcoins. I wonder how much of it has to do with the fixed card processing fees as a component of the small transaction size.

The goal would seem to be when the restaurant can pay their bills in bitcoins, so they never have to convert it to a fiat currency at all.

kamkazemoose13y ago

I also wonder how much of it is novelty/PR. This move gets a lot more people talking about them, and you'll get some people who just want to spend bitcoins in meatspace.

loaristys13y ago· 1 in thread

Strange that such a budget website would accept bitcoins.

theoh13y ago

It's not "budget", it's a computer scientist's idea of minimal markup. Like the first google search page. See story here: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/17/london-bitcoi...

AndrewDucker13y ago· 1 in thread

How long do you have to wait for confirmation/

bdamm13y ago

fredley13y ago

Also in Cambridge at the Haymakers:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Business/Business-News/Use-v...

ijager13y ago

De Waag in Delft, The Netherlands also accepts Bitcoin: http://www.de-waag.nl/Stadscafe/Bitcoin (Dutch)

It's great to see people experimenting with Bitcoin. I'd love to see it develop further as a currency.

bergie13y ago

Not too bad, but in my neighbourhood there are several that accept BitCoin:

http://bitcoinhood.wordpress.com/

Here is the sticker to look for: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/9065253249/

dataduck13y ago

lepunk13y ago

i think this is the moment when we can say that bitcoin became a real currency. [imo a currency is something what you can use to buy beer]

triplesec13y ago

IT's a chain of 4 pubs in 4 cities, as is apparent if you oh so cunningly go to the root URL

magoon13y ago

The fact that this is news sheds light on how obscure Bitcoin is as currency.

alex_doom13y ago

Jesus that's so simple... But I think I'll stick with cash.

mattbarrie13y ago

Prepare to be extradited!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse