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0 pointsprotomyth13y ago0 comments

Given how cable looks compared to over the air HDTV, the coming of 4k, and satellite channels even h.264 isn't good enough. VP8 won't be and h.265 is the industries answer. I would expect trouble with the adoption of VP9 given Google's moves with Mortorola's patents.

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shmerl13y ago

> I would expect trouble with the adoption of VP9 given Google's moves with Mortorola's patents.

How exactly? There is no indication that Google wants to make VP9 patent encumbered, since their whole idea behind VP8 was to enable high quality open video codec for the Web and beyond. If VP9 will be their natural next step, it will be open as well. If Daala comes soon enough too - it will be another option.

protomythOP13y ago

There are patents covering VP8 and I would bet VP9 also is covered.

shmerl13y ago

That's true, and Google explicitly granted their free usage, thus the codec is open in all senses of the word. I'd expect the same story with VP9. So what's your point?

http://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/

http://www.webmproject.org/license/software/

http://www.webmproject.org/license/additional/

1 more reply

gillianseed13y ago

Google releases VP8 and VP9 with a patent and royalty free licence, so a potential patent threat will hardly come from them.

protomythOP13y ago

Motorola released their GSM required patents under FRAND licensing. Google buys Motorola and tries to use those same patents in a fight with Apple and Motorola (dragging Qualcomm in with them). Google has to agree with the FTC not to do that.

Why would Apple or Microsoft believe Google's patent and royalty free license given their behavior with Motorola's prior promises?

shmerl13y ago

Apple and MS just don't like open codecs, period. That's the whole reason they sabotage them. It's not about belief - it's about the struggle between closed and open.

1 more reply

taligent13y ago

Exactly the patent threat will come from the MPEG-LA or the members directly.

Because if VP9 is indeed similar to H.265 then you I would imagine a patent is being infringed somewhere. And since Google doesn't provide patent indemnification you can guarantee that some big royalties will be demanded from users.

shmerl13y ago

> Exactly the patent threat will come from the MPEG-LA or the members directly. Because if VP9 is indeed similar to H.265

Why would they design the codec to be vulnerable to patent attacks? VP8 was designed to work around threats from H.264. They surely applied the same logic for VP9 since they intend it for practical use and not as theoretical brain exercise. MPEG-LA spits threats all the time, including against Theora and VP8, but they have no teeth to bite.

gillianseed13y ago

I bet you said the same thing back when VP8 was released, no such patent lawsuit has occured.

Also, On2 which Google purchased holds lots of video compression patents, patents which codec's like h.264 and h.265 just as likely violates.

MPEG-LA does not offer any patent indemnification either.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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shmerl13y ago

> I would expect trouble with the adoption of VP9 given Google's moves with Mortorola's patents.

protomythOP13y ago

There are patents covering VP8 and I would bet VP9 also is covered.

shmerl13y ago

That's true, and Google explicitly granted their free usage, thus the codec is open in all senses of the word. I'd expect the same story with VP9. So what's your point?

http://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/

http://www.webmproject.org/license/software/

http://www.webmproject.org/license/additional/

1 more reply

gillianseed13y ago

Google releases VP8 and VP9 with a patent and royalty free licence, so a potential patent threat will hardly come from them.

protomythOP13y ago

Why would Apple or Microsoft believe Google's patent and royalty free license given their behavior with Motorola's prior promises?

shmerl13y ago

Apple and MS just don't like open codecs, period. That's the whole reason they sabotage them. It's not about belief - it's about the struggle between closed and open.

1 more reply

taligent13y ago

Exactly the patent threat will come from the MPEG-LA or the members directly.

shmerl13y ago

> Exactly the patent threat will come from the MPEG-LA or the members directly. Because if VP9 is indeed similar to H.265

gillianseed13y ago

I bet you said the same thing back when VP8 was released, no such patent lawsuit has occured.

Also, On2 which Google purchased holds lots of video compression patents, patents which codec's like h.264 and h.265 just as likely violates.

MPEG-LA does not offer any patent indemnification either.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse