The other thing I hate is the concept of "The" Bully. It's easy to imagine a sick, hateful person, most importantly someone else, and individual bullies certainly exist, but I think the far more common situation is where the bully is a group of people. I think one way to 'Stop Bullying' is to help people understand when they are bullying, instead of just imagining it's something someone else does. I doubt there that many people that never had an adolescent moment where they 'ganged up' on someone (verbally) to feel like they belonged more in a group, or just to give an outsider or a 'runt' of the group a hard time, because it's such an instinctive thing to do. So much so that it's a huge theme of Lord of the Flies, a book everybody reads in high school, but rarely views within the context of their own life.
The most ironic thing about these stop bullying campaigns is so very, very often they reflect the same group bullying mentality they purport to be fighting. All these people 'ganging up' on the prosecutors in this case are example of that. I'm not saying this wasn't a failure of our justice system that should be fixed, only that it at times this is seeming awfully like a witch hunt.
This is an unfair analogy. Don't compare a college roommate with a US Attorney. First, they don't have the same moral training: the roommate is young and still in school, while the prosecutor has spent years in school studing justice and is near the top of a profession with the primary goal of doing justice. Second, their acts aren't comparable: the roommate acted on a sick, misguided impulse intending to embarrass, while the prosecutor deliberately over the course of many months and spending many thousands of dollars intended to force a kid to admitting to a felony and to agree to spend months in prison.
There is a clear bully here and it's not the people protesting Carmen Ortiz's actions.
Pretty much. Also, the roommate had nothing much to gain, politically or career wise.
It looks like the likely cause of the banning was a link you submitted advertising windows 8 at a reduced price.
For anyone else reading this, sorry if it is off topic, but I think Slovette (and really any contributing member) deserves to know they've been hell-banned.
Consequences have consequences.
If you, like every teen ever, fuck around behind the wheel, probably nothing will happen to you. If you are unlucky, you might get a minor ticket. Run over a child, though, and you're in for a world of hurt. Even though exactly the same amount of youthful off-goofing and bad driving is involved.
Ortiz's actions were one cause of Aaron's death, and she is being judged on that basis. She probably will not face serious consequences because her actions fit a norm. Hopefully those actions will become less socially acceptable, much like bullying in recent years.
I agree with this, but it's not the same as saying that the bully's conduct was OK. Even if it's true that there has been overreaction to the treatment of Aaron Swartz, to the point of that being bullying as well, that just means there is wrong on both sides.
One, bullying is not a new occurrence. Most of us grew up to be fine and arguably stronger (and there was one year I probably got punched or my head slammed in a locker 4 out of the 5 days in the week). So what’s changed today that this generation of children can’t seem to grow past it? It’s become a devastating ordeal with kids committing suicide and whatnot; thoughts that NEVER went through my head growing up. Shit sucked, but I knew it wasn’t permanent.
Two, are we coddling our children so much in the new era of child rearing technics that we’ve stripped them of the notion to grow and learn from the hurtful things in life? Are we teaching them to drop responsibility for the outcome of our environment in a pity me plea? I only ask because when things would happen to me, the first thing my mother would ask is “Well, did you do anything to provoke him?” and even if I hadn’t it forced the notion through my head that I ultimately control my environment by my behavior. Shit happens and I get that, but my mother didn’t go to the principal’s office, talk to the other kid’s parents or call the police. I simply learned to cope and, well, manipulate. Bluff toughness when necessary; kill with kindness when that was necessary. You learn to change your environment by changing your own behavior and in effect provoking others to change theirs. Probably the most valuable lesson I’ve ever learned.
One could highlight that the internet has changed the face of bullying. Whereas my generation (y) and the ones preceding me had to grow through physical bullying abuse, and today bullying has changed to public humiliation happening in front of thousands of people thanks to the internet. I could see that being a major factor in the change of effect.
I don’t believe simply removing bullying from adolescent life is the answer. I think it’s an easy one to exploit, but I really don’t think it’s the only answer we’re looking for. Bullies are a part of life and stripping our kids of the experience is only going to leave them helpless as adults. I agree fully that things need to change, but I also have a point of view that most of the time these terrible things that happen to us make us stronger.
It’s a thought provoking subject really and I curious to see some responses.
It's just about power, the abuse of power and what you would have respect for. That "helping" sounds ridiculous if it won't come from something/someone that THE BULLY would have respect for (such as police as in the story).
And not only on the recent context. This is a story, that sadly fits so many contexts, that it could be shown day after day after day.
In the real world we're all bullies (1), and sometimes suicide, self-harm, and hysterical overreaction is the ultimate tactic to bully. It seems entirely irrational, and I'm sure the mere notion of it will outrage some, but humans are prone to irrationality.
One of the most dangerous behaviors is to empower suicide -- to make it the ultimate "get back at them" tactic, internet lynch mobs that didn't care at all before suddenly up in arms against the purported aggressors, the narrative of the story simplified and made completely one-sided, where there are only villains and victims. That isn't how the real world works.
Despite the ham-fisted Swartz parable in the linked thing, I was not talking about that situation above. However if I might, it was clear years earlier that Aaron wasn't exactly the happiest person in the world. There were things going on there that none of us understand, and presuming that everything would be happy sailing if a prosecutor looked the other way isn't rational.
(1)- Some of the most egregious, obnoxious bullying happened in the recent thread recounting the thread about Aaron's situation from a half a year ago. Suddenly everything was seemingly so clear to some, their righteous outrage and vilification so loud. Just embarrassing.
I was not (or at least, I hope so) empowering suicide, as this would be the last thing on my mind. I read the story as some kind of parable, teaching me something. It got me thinking. It broke through all the layers protecting my brain from all the noise out there. It gripped me and I started thinking, about the times, I was on the receiving- and on the giving-end of the bully-stick.
I am far to far away, to judge, if anyone in the linked context qualifies as bully. Really I am. And to be fair, it is ok not to judge here, not knowing of Aarons situation, not knowing the people involved and only having read some 1000 words on the topic.
But I can judge myself being bullied and being a bully sometimes. And I was able to identify some situations, in which i was not the good man, I want to be, situations, I was able to revisit in memory, See where I went wrong and what I could do better next time. And speaking an apology to the one on the receiving-end.
So what is so bad in this irrational, emotional, but maybe moving story? In my humble opinion, it would only be "bad" not to go the next step after reading it.
>everyone - including the teacher - had laughed
Yes. 'Socialization' --a purportedly legitimate function of schooling-- exists on the same continuum as teasing and bullying.
Please expand on this as much as you're willing.
The easiest counterpoint is noting so-called "bully-like" behavior from prosecutors in cases that ended up putting someone genuinely dangerous behind bars or into confessing a crime they committed but wouldn't confess to without the so-called "bullying".
So, if we want to talk about this from the perspective of a bully, let's begin by defining what it is and isn't.
