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0 pointskmoser4d ago0 comments

Lots to comment on but this stood out:

> “A lawsuit like this heightens the demand for Generative AI replacements.”

Most generative AI corpora were arguably trained on copyrighted material, making the output potentially infringing.

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16 comments · 6 top-level

bawolff4d ago· 5 in thread

> Most generative AI corpora were arguably trained on copyrighted material, making the output potentially infringing.

Training is not neccesarily sufficient for it to be a derrivative work, just like if you learned to draw based on famous drawings doesn't mean every single drawing you ever made is infringing.

Obviously there are cases where it could be infringing, its going to depend how close the output is to the original.

I guess it depends on how you read the post, is it saying use gen-AI to intentionally recreate the photo, something that sounds danger-zone, or are they saying use gen-ai to make some other photo suitable for purpose?

LoganDark4d ago

> Training is not neccesarily sufficient for it to be a derrivative work, just like if you learned to draw based on famous drawings doesn't mean every single drawing you ever made is infringing.

We don't know that model training is the same thing as inspiration. Training is a mathematical process with theoretically deterministic outputs. It's converging the weights towards being able to exactly reproduce the training data, rather than parts of the training data subjectively influencing a creative output. We will just have to see how this plays in court.

ghaff4d ago

I'm largely out of this space now but my understanding is that some copyright cases around model training are winding through courts but I haven't seen anything definitive come out. The IP lawyers I know are skeptical but we'll see.

p_l4d ago

EU AI Act is moving towards genAI output being non-copyrightable and that you'd need to actually prove derivative character from a specific copyrighted work(s) to claim infringement.

AFAIK american law is going towards similar setup.

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kirrent4d ago

Bartz v Anthropic is some good authority on fair use (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.43...). Still, it can't be said to be definitive because the plaintiff's arguments on market harm (with respect to fair use, not piracy) were limited and there were, as far as I can remember, no compelling examples provided of model output reproducing large swathes of training text.

lelandfe4d ago

Sometimes human writers sit down to write and accidentally end up verbatim reproducing an NYT paywalled article, too, and no one bats an eye, but AI does it and allll of a sudden we’re in court? Poppycock!

jterrys4d ago· 3 in thread

Ye olde double edged sword

On one hand aggressively punitive copyright claims stifle creativity and innovation in transformative art. On the other hand, generative AI reopens that transformative creativity.

tadfisher4d ago

Reminder that the original copyright term was 14 years, with a single 14-year extension.

If this were still the norm, it would feel crazy that blockbuster movie studios are still recycling comic book characters from the 1950s.

slyall4d ago

If copyright was shorter blockbuster movies could still recycle comic book characters from the 50s. It just means that any filmmaker could do it rather than just who can afford to pay Marvel/DC

jterrys4d ago

Agreed.

ralph844d ago· 2 in thread

Except everyone who has tried to argue that in court has lost.

jagged-chisel4d ago

Has this been argued? I'd love to read some actual court decisions.

akramachamarei4d ago

Here are some cases (mined from Wikipedia sources):

Tremblay v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 3:23-cv-03223 (N.D. Cal.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2023cv...)

Andersen v. Stability AI Ltd., No. 3:23-cv-00201 (N.D. Cal.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...)

Authors Guild v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-08292 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...)

Getty Images (US), Inc. v. Stability AI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-00135 (D. Del.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/delaware/dedce/1:2023cv001...)

The New York Times Co. v. Microsoft Corp., No. 1:23-cv-11195 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...)

Richard Kadrey et al. v. Meta (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25984135-richard-kad...)

Bartz v. Anthropic (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25982181-authors-v-a...)

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