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0 pointsazalemeth10d ago0 comments

Academia is the most relevant, toxic example that I can think of. Be horrible to others on a short term contract (grad students, postdocs) and break them whilst extracting maximum value -- get more papers, more grants written -- more money -- success.

Be nice, think about hard problems for a long period of time, only speak up when you have something positive to contribute -- be labelled an underperforming academic and managed into obscurity.

A great example of this is Peter Higgs, who famously said that he'd be unemployed pretty quickly in the academia of 2013. [0]

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/06/peter-higgs-...

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16 comments · 6 top-level

nathan_compton10d ago· 6 in thread

> Be nice, think about hard problems for a long period of time, only speak up when you have something positive to contribute -- be labelled an underperforming academic and managed into obscurity.

I'm in academy and I'm mostly quiet and seek to contribute honestly and I've been managed into obscurity but I'm also quite happy, pay the bills, and more or less enjoy the work. If you want glory you have to deal with bullshit. If you don't want glory, life provides many opportunities to live a modest but productive life.

rdbl2710d ago

Over 99% of students who attempt your "mostly quiet" strategy are managed entirely out of academia long before tenure.

You won the lottery, which is great for you, but it's not a strategy to promote to others as life advice.

nathan_compton10d ago

I'm not tenured and I doubt I will ever be and I'm not even interested in it. I have a support role in academia, get to teach, and am pretty well compensated (though I make 2-3x less than I could in the private sector. But its enough.)

afavour10d ago

It's the money side that applies pressure there. It's great that you're able to make enough money but a lot of people who aspire to the quiet academic life are stuck in the lower tiers making a pittance.

jimbokun10d ago

This is because there are far more people wanting a quiet academic life than there are jobs providing a quiet academic life with a livable wage.

And this is likely to become even more out of balance as college enrollment declines and there are smaller and smaller cohorts of freshmen as fertility continues to decline.

nathan_compton10d ago

There are pittances and then there are pittances. I make a bit more than a typical adjunct or whatever because I have very specialized skills, but its ok not to make a lot of money.

I mean this is a place where the founder just wrote a blog post about being a billionaire. I'll never be a billionaire, thats for sure.

But I genuinely believe that pursuing that goal is vanity, bad for people mentally and "spiritually" and bad for the world.

jimbokun10d ago

There's a lot of wisdom here.

nradov10d ago· 4 in thread

And academia will become even more toxic as opportunities shrink along with declining student enrollment. A lot of the third-tier colleges will close entirely.

pc8610d ago

This seems good, honestly. A degree from a third-tier college doesn't do anyone any good except the administrators at that college.

lacunary10d ago

I feel great about my degree from my third tier college. I learned a lot I didn't expect to, got into a top tier grad school afterwards, and came away with no debt. Maybe me and the millions of other third tier college students are too dumb to know what's good for us, though.

delusional10d ago

I have been to a "third tier" college, but do you learn nothing there?

musicale9d ago

The competition for faculty jobs at any college is typically fierce, which means you can find excellent faculty almost anywhere.

vidarh10d ago

The challenge is to distinguish "think about hard problems for a long period of time, only speak up when you have something positive to contribute" from slacking.

I am not arguing for bullshit metrics - I personally love working on things that may or may not pay off on a 10 year+ horizon and wish I could do more of that. But at the same time I've seen enough people coast to accept that most places that either isn't - or won't be seen as - tenable, at least not until/unless you've established a stellar track-record first.

4 more replies

initramfs10d ago

And the Xerox Alto had a budget for 10 years. Unthinkable in today's "What did you publish?? Publish or it didn't happen. No R01 for you! (2 year funding)" culture.

1 more reply

TremendousJudge10d ago

Great little article. 12 years later, he is still right on every count. Who would have thought that Peter Higgs was a very clever, clear-thinking man

impendia10d ago

I'm an academic mathematician in a US research-oriented department.

I'm happy to report that I've observed very little of what you describe.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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16 comments · 6 top-level

nathan_compton10d ago· 6 in thread

> Be nice, think about hard problems for a long period of time, only speak up when you have something positive to contribute -- be labelled an underperforming academic and managed into obscurity.

rdbl2710d ago

Over 99% of students who attempt your "mostly quiet" strategy are managed entirely out of academia long before tenure.

You won the lottery, which is great for you, but it's not a strategy to promote to others as life advice.

nathan_compton10d ago

afavour10d ago

jimbokun10d ago

This is because there are far more people wanting a quiet academic life than there are jobs providing a quiet academic life with a livable wage.

And this is likely to become even more out of balance as college enrollment declines and there are smaller and smaller cohorts of freshmen as fertility continues to decline.

nathan_compton10d ago

There are pittances and then there are pittances. I make a bit more than a typical adjunct or whatever because I have very specialized skills, but its ok not to make a lot of money.

I mean this is a place where the founder just wrote a blog post about being a billionaire. I'll never be a billionaire, thats for sure.

But I genuinely believe that pursuing that goal is vanity, bad for people mentally and "spiritually" and bad for the world.

jimbokun10d ago

There's a lot of wisdom here.

nradov10d ago· 4 in thread

And academia will become even more toxic as opportunities shrink along with declining student enrollment. A lot of the third-tier colleges will close entirely.

pc8610d ago

This seems good, honestly. A degree from a third-tier college doesn't do anyone any good except the administrators at that college.

lacunary10d ago

delusional10d ago

I have been to a "third tier" college, but do you learn nothing there?

musicale9d ago

The competition for faculty jobs at any college is typically fierce, which means you can find excellent faculty almost anywhere.

vidarh10d ago

The challenge is to distinguish "think about hard problems for a long period of time, only speak up when you have something positive to contribute" from slacking.

4 more replies

initramfs10d ago

And the Xerox Alto had a budget for 10 years. Unthinkable in today's "What did you publish?? Publish or it didn't happen. No R01 for you! (2 year funding)" culture.

1 more reply

TremendousJudge10d ago

Great little article. 12 years later, he is still right on every count. Who would have thought that Peter Higgs was a very clever, clear-thinking man

impendia10d ago

I'm an academic mathematician in a US research-oriented department.

I'm happy to report that I've observed very little of what you describe.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse