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0 pointsno-name-here16d ago0 comments

> deepseek inference is subsidized by the CCP

What is that claim based on?

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4 comments · 2 top-level

SubiculumCode16d ago· 2 in thread

Besides common sense given the clear geopolitical context, sources like:

[1] https://chinaselectcommittee.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/se... [2] https://ai.americansecurityproject.org/news/ai-imperative-20...

and more.

Of course, you can choose to ignore America-biased sources, but since it aligns with the obvious.

throwaway6767816d ago

There is no evidence in those sources that DeepSeek is "subsidized" by the CCP in the way people imply (e.g. in an actively malicious*, market-distorting way that undercuts the competition, early Uber-style). They do receive tax breaks for their R&D research, a very common scheme in Europe (and which also used to be the case in the US, I believe). They also have public-private partnerships, e.g. the state is one of their clients. Also common in every free market economy. (SpaceX anyone?)

*This does not invalidate other concerns (censorship, privacy) but the way people phrase it makes it look like DeepSeek and co. are 'cheating' somehow with their business model by 'distorting' inference cost to make it way artificially lower than its 'natural price' (either notion being hopelessly naive)

SubiculumCode16d ago

"According to a report from Securities Times (a Chinese state-owned newspaper), Zhejiang Oriental, a listed company under the Zhejiang Provincial SASAC, participated in the angel round of financing of DeepSeek through its Hangzhou Oriental Jiafu Venture Capital Fund."[1]

"The Zhejiang Provincial State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC) is the provincial government agency in Zhejiang, China, responsible for managing, regulating, and overseeing the state-owned assets and enterprises owned by the provincial government." [2]

What does this imply? A state-owned company in China invested a ton of money into DeepSeek. aka State subsidization.

[1] https://www.americansecurityproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2... [2] https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/zhej...

2 more replies

fc417fc80216d ago

Check the pricing on OpenRouter. V4 Pro is twice as expensive from the next cheapest provider and 3.5x as expensive for fp8 (as opposed to fp4) from a US provider.

But I assume they're just harvesting training data since there's par for the course. There are also a handful of US labs offering free access for that exact reason.

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