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0 pointsclarky0713y ago0 comments

We aren't profiting because they are oppressed. They are being oppressed and we aren't actively speaking out against it. Those are different things. This is the same BS we see all the time in America. People need to take personal responsibility. These women are being oppressed by the Saudi government. America hasn't helped them, but that doesn't make it our fault.

I'm fine with arguing that America should do something to help all oppressed people in the world (I don't think it's possible or should be done) but you can make that argument. You can't say it's our fault for not stopping it.

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pooriaazimi13y ago· 3 in thread

I disagree. By buying oil and selling arms, they are helping them.

In case you aren't aware, Taliban and Mujahadeen were US allies in Afghanistan. And by ally, I mean really ally. They fought together against the Soviets. US was giving them weapons and aid. In a trip to Afghanistan, Zbigniew Brzezinski (Carter's National Security Advisor) called the Mujahadeen and Taliban (the same guys that were treating women like trash), "Soldiers of God" and told then

    We know of their deep belief in god – that they’re confident that their
    struggle will succeed. That land over there is yours and you’ll
    go back to it some day, because your fight will prevail, and you’ll
    have your homes, your mosques, back again, because your cause is right,
    and god is on your side.

Watch it on video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lf0RT72iw

Or, if you have time, watch this episode of the terrific CNN documentary (Cold War, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIU0e23ZTcU

So, in essence: yes, US helped Mujahadeen, Taliban, Saudies and others. And people in the west are profiting from that.

I don't agree with everything these two article says, but at least watch the pictures:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-dev...

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/23860

Just look at this picture: http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/reaganandmujahi... - It's US president Ronald Reagan with some ass-backward, woman-beating fucks in the White House... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3f9mlUQzJA

clarky07OP13y ago

What I said was that American hasn't helped the women. Obviously they have helped the Saudi govt. That doesn't make them responsible for it.

It is very easy to argue that the US would be worse off if a rebel govt made Saudi Arabia unstable. It is not the US's fault that the govt that helps our goals also does bad things.

Like I said, I'm perfectly fine with you arguing we should do something about the oppression, and that we shouldn't be helping the current government. I'm not ok with saying it is our fault they are being oppressed. Just because we could do something about it, doesn't make it our fault.

If Joe shoots Tim, is it your fault because you didn't stop Joe? No. It's Joe's fault. He's the murderer. The Saudi govt are oppressing the women, and it's the Saudi govt's fault that the women are oppressed. By all means argue for doing something about it, but don't shift the blame where it isn't due.

pooriaazimi13y ago

> If Joe shoots Tim, is it your fault because you didn't stop Joe?

If you're a friend and supporter of Joe's, you testify that he's a good man in the court (or United Nations), if you elected a government that gave Joe the weapon, if you profited from Tim being killed, then yes, you're also guilty. You've basically delegated the dirty job of "finding cheap oil by any means necessary so I can have an easier life" to Joe.

I'm not saying you should be the world's police; what I'm saying is if you profit from others being oppressed (so the oppressor can sell you oil cheaper so you can have a better life), it's your duty as a human being to try to change things for your brother.

Of course, if you're not profiting from that oppression, or aren't supporting the oppressor, then it's NOT your duty but still it would be nice to intervene.

> ... don't shift the blame where it isn't due.

Not at all. Those dictators are guilty of all those crimes. No one's arguing against that.

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nmridul13y ago

Then why are American's crying about China's human rights violations and imposing sanctions against them ?

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