Yikes that’s a lot of money. For most people buying solar, I think payback period is probably the biggest consideration.
It also doesn't help that they seemingly had issues scaling up - and even people who were willing to spend $100K on a Solar Roof faced long delays if they were available at all in their market. Tesla's image has also shifted in the last decade, and having a Tesla parked in your driveway with a powerwall and solar roof doesn't carry quite the same image that it once did - which is important when you are relying on emotions to drive sales.
If they can work out the economics to the point that it's more viable than something like treasuries then I don't see the issue? Of course there's some potential market and other variability, but if this business model is sound then Lloyd's is there to insure it?
But it’s usually a bad deal for the homeowner compared to a more conventional lease or purchase with a fixed rate. The incentives don’t match up, there is also the issue of the lease buyout if the home is sold.
> "requires on-site renewable electricity generation for new homes in England — solar PV covering around 40% of ground floor area where feasible"
As well as an end to new gas boilers, replaced with a heat pump mandate.
> The estimated build cost increase is around £4,350 per dwelling. FHS-compliant homes are projected to save homeowners around £830 per year on energy bills compared to a typical EPC C home
That .. looks rather different to a $100k gold plated roof.
With that said, Tesla's Solar Roof is definitely the gold plated unreasonably out of touch option.
What's the capacity though. Either way this seems extremely high unless we are talking in terms of like 100kw or something. For reference, I recently installed hybrid/net-metered system set up at my home in India; 7kw solar with a 20kWh battery for around $10K. The biggest cost is for the batteries though. The panels themselves have become extremely low price and the prices continue to fall.
It's interesting to see Tesla's solar business getting disrupted by Chinese manufacturers after EV.
* Diversification. These days stocks, bonds, real estate, crypto, and even precious metals are increasingly correlated [1]. Solar panels offer pretty consistent returns regardless of what is happening in the stock market.
* Backup power. I live in an area that is prone to natural disasters. Having a backup power source gives me a bit of peace of mind.
* Hedge against increasing energy prices. My solar panels have actually performed better than I expected due to electricity prices increasing faster than I expected.
* Clean energy. When I turn on my A/C in the summer I take some enjoyment from the fact that it's powered by the panels on my roof and not burning fossil fuels.
* Entertainment. I enjoy nerding out and learning about the tech, monitoring output, etc. A lot of people think solar panels are ugly but I actually like the way they look.
Yes the S&P 500 would have returned signficantly more than my solar panels. But I already have a lot invested in the S&P 500, solar panels were fairly inexpensive and don't make up a significant portion of my overall investments, and the psychological benefits outweigh whatever opportunity cost I have incurred.
There is also the option to finance them. You need to be careful with financing, as I think there are a lot of predatory offers out there. But if you are buying or building a house, for example, and can roll the cost of the panels into your mortgage, then that's going to reduce the up front cost and hence the opportunity cost.
But yeah when you get into the $100K range for a Tesla solar roof, then I think that starts to be a pretty substantial amount for most people that can be better spent elsewhere. Not to mention the delays, customer service issues, etc that people have experienced with Tesla - which can easily offset any peace of mind benefits.
[1] https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/04/14/h...
Edit: installed for me by trades in that price.
Not saying it is a huge factor but it is there.
The simplest explanation is that they did all that and the market didn't want it. The economics of traditional panels outweighed the aesthetic advantages of tiles and they're pivoting. No conspiracy or fraud need be invoked.
Financially it was part of SolarCity bailout (Musk's cousin). It heavily heavily penalized Tesla shareholders and smelled of a family bailout. Solar Roof was announced so hastily in October 2016 justify the merger and stave off massive shareholder lawsuits. There was little effort in the roof development after bailout was a success, minus the bait-and-switch lawsuits.
There was genuine concept level development at some point, but it was developed into product after they knew it did not work to keep lawyers happy.
From this to self-driving cars in 2 years to tunnels that will change public transport… maybe Musk should prototype and see what’s actually possible before telling the market. I mean come on - it’s borderline fraud in order to pump stocks - there’s got to be stockholders that are forming class actions as we speak
That's the problem though. Thinking your product will get by on looks when it's clearly outcompeted on performance, price, availability and longevity. That's not just optimism, it's delusion.
https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=48166411&goto=item%3Fi...
[1] https://mansionengineer.com/2018/08/10/elon-musk-tesla-and-t...
> There’s a reason that they announced the idea on a fake block in a fake neighborhood with fake houses!
Interesting read.
Cheaper installations generally win, especially when the homeowner receives a credit on the install for its projected or actual power generation (only federal credits tended to scale proportionally to the install cost.) This cost pressure has been hard for premium flat panel installers, which are in turn cheaper than Tesla was.
As acceptance of rooftop solar has grown, comfort with its aesthetics has also increased, reducing the need for solar that hides its nature.
Railways, highways, wind turbines- they become part of the landscape.
They are struggling in China which is pretty insane considering their head start in that country.
Clearly the solar roof idea could have been iterated on and made to make more financial sense. I think they could have built it into a panel solution that integrates a standard steel roof.
But again, what it looks like to me is that Tesla hasn’t actually been able to put real money and effort into any products at all. I think all their best people quit, and their leadership is distracted and ineffective.
For small (i.e. residential) installation these parties taking their pounds of flesh represents a double digit percentage of system cost.
Larger installations, of course, will never work that way, simply because they generate too much current for your standard wall plug to handle.
From a disaster situation/civil defense perspective, it provides offgrid durability to communities, and it could be life or death in cold waves or heat waves.
For all the utility companies complaining about EV and alt energy infrastructure adaptation... well, fine, then let consumer PV do a large part of the work. Oh wait, did someone say consumer choice? The utility companies shut up real fast.
So it also counterbalances the political power of utility companies, who are no longer a monopoly, and provides economic competition so utilities can't jack rates if corporate/industrial/(ahem, AI) starts increasing demand and prices.
This needs a small asterisk that many systems are deliberately not "islanding" capable. Mine isn't, but in the ten years I've had my panels I've only ever had a couple of power cuts, one of which was at night.
- Magnitude higher number of interconnections which impacts reliability and efficiency
- Uniform roof tile style
- Requires entire roof rebuild which is always more expensive than retrofit of panels on top
- Complex installation resulting in less installers available overall for the market
- Crossing of trades between roofing & electrical
A slightly better solution would have been to make the big traditional solar panels your actual roof panels but really retrofitting them on top of panels solves most of those issues above.
The market pitch is different tho, they are aimed at providing less effective solar for places where you have a hard need to keep the old look, old churches, monumental buildings and such.
The market shrank because standard panels and their mounting techniques got more aesthetically pleasing and cheaper.
Multiple tiles also need to be connected in series to get reasonable efficiency, so you get plenty of failure points where one bad connection can cause a significant part of your solar roof to become useless. And you won't be able to easily fix it.
You can obviously fix all these issues, but it makes tiles too expensive.
Essentially, you are adding another zero to the cost to have hidden solar. A 20k solar install becomes a 200k+ solar roof install.
Even if the final result is great, the economics shrink the possible customer base. Basic solar has gotten so cheap that people aren't worrying if the investment increases the value of the house itself. But very few people are willing to pay 10x for a thing that will never pay itself back in energy or home value. It's like putting a pool in your house - a few buyers will want it, but a lot will run from it because they don't know what to do with it.
So as a result, the target market ends up being super rich dudes in gated communities - the same kind of people buying custom 100k hifi systems and home cinema rooms. It becomes an upsell for people with unlimited budgets.
It's just not a mass market product when the competition is 10x cheaper and dropping daily.
On the other hand, Tesla's solar shingles are tiny compared to panels, more in the shape of actual shingle strips, means tons of connectors, wiring losses, dangerous shorts (these things carry 10s of amps) etc. and probably a nightmare to troubleshoot.
I would not get these for any reason other than aesthetics.
IMHO a pergola or carport is going to be better. You lose solar efficiency but gain the benefit of something that provides shade. Especially as solar panels have become an economical roofing option if you don't care about perfect waterproofing.
I have a system this size and it's fairly rare for me to make less over the day than I use (we have pretty sunny winters where I live and at -27 degrees latitude am not super far from the equator). In summer I tend to produce at least twice as much energy than the house draws.
The economics have skewed a bit as export tariffs have dropped (due to there being so much solar) but batteries have become so cheap and are now subsidised quite a bit too that most people aren't getting just solar systems anymore but now are doing solar+battery.
It would probably technically be a bit more efficient to do larger neighbourhood arrays and batteries, but if they're cheap enough it works fine to do individual homes.
The electricy is consumed in the houses and not on the empty land.
Parking lots become a win-win with electric cars. They also keep the cars cleen and sun protected.
Plus, most solar installs are grid connected so a significant portion of the electricity tends not to be consumed where it is produced. It’s not as if installing solar is an alternative to grid connections for most practical reasons.
We'll see. But I have an outbuilding with a large two plane roof and the south facing plane has no penetrations and is pretty much unshaded. Our utility rates have pretty much doubled over the last three years, and there's another ~30% increase scheduled over the next three years. Said roof is coming up on the end of its expected life, so it may be a good time to put on a new roof and put on solar at the same time.
Could someone get better ROI doing a larger solar project somewhere else? Probably. But if it maths for me, I'm going to do the project on my roof, because I don't have anywhere else to do it (well I could do a ground install, but I'd lose aesthetically)
E.g. Disconnecting your energy supplier or a power outage will still result in no power usage, despite solar panels generating power.
More expensive inverters and battery systems allow this, although this is far from the norm.
On the other hand it can make sense based on arbitrage. In a lot of markets the cost of the system is unfairly subsidized. People on the losing side of that can lower their costs with roof top solar.
I'm aware of the arguments about how it can be that much cheaper when deployed at mass centralized scale rather than decentralized across a bunch of rooftops, however the way the electric markets are prices is based primarily on the cost to produce the marginal supply, which is usually gas.
So while the power company might flood a bunch of solar panels trying to capture the profit between cost to generate solar vs. cost to generate using gas, those profits haven't been lowering electric costs at residential rates. If anything those costs are still climbing.
It's actually not hard to get rooftop solar to pencil out in that situation, especially if you assume even moderate growth in future electricity rates or inflation. In my own tracker it would even be superior to paying down additional principle on my home mortgage!
Admittedly it would be less of a slam dunk if the net metering was less generous around here as you'd basically be required to add battery to the mix if you weren't already. But even that just prolongs the time to payoff, it still ends up having good ROI economically speaking.
Electricity generation in the event of a power outage was another consideration for me.
But yeah as a techy I also just enjoy having them.
That might just be another way of saying "niche."
Americans come up will all kinds of ridiculous reasons for not using clean energy.
1) Nuclear is dangerous, even though it has the safest profile of all energy: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-p...
2) Also, we are now bird lovers! Wind turbines killed 2 dozen birds (but cats kill billions of birds). Wind is also an eyesore. Ruins the views from $_.
3) Solar is an eyesore.
4) Electric cars don't work in the cold. (lets ignore Norway, a tropical island)
5) Range anxiety, because I might drive from Florida to Wyoming.
I tend to think garages are an eyesore, and yet, basically everyone (including me) wants one included with their home.
Next best thing aesthetically are full-roof racks, where one face of the roof is 100% covered in panels. Nowadays you just have to select the right panel and you can make it tile the plane perfectly.
On the average suburban tract home in my corner of the USA, panels are no more ugly than the shingled roofs they sit atop.
https://nabendynamo.de/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/20210426_1...
While not quite panel-sized, it's much larger tiles and there's not another roof underneath. Probably makes most sense with a new roof, though. The problem is that when a roof lasts 50--80 years, that's not a very big market just for new roofs.
Thanks for sharing.
Apologies, my google-fu is weak; I couldn't find more details. It's SON's building? I couldn't find that roof top at that address (using Google Maps).
Here's as far as I got: https://gemini.google.com/share/bef19f2b145c
Flush with the rest of the roof seems like a mistake. What if you need/want to replace them with a different sized panel?
The big problem is that because there is no real ventilation, the panels get hotter and don't produce as much power.
What you put under them also has an effect on how waterproof your roof is long term, plus when you need to replace them finding ones that are the right size are also a pain.
Also see https://roofit.solar/ used in a few houses… mainly self build a or architect designed
If you experience any failure, like a falling tree limb, you're now _required_ to replace panels to restore the integrity of your home.
It's far simpler to be able to just restore a roof, which any builder can do, and then come back and restore the panel layer again later.
The main issue was that normal large panels got a lot cheaper way faster than expected and custom sized ones like that end up costing too much by comparison.
In Australia where North is “optimal”, even South facing panels produce only 20-30% less and East/West about 15%. It does vary a bit by latitude but it’s not at all pointless to install them in other orientations in many places. I have not done the math to see how much of the world this extends to, but it applies to a fairly large chunk of Australia. Source: https://www.solarquotes.com.au/panels/direction/
Tesla’s system also had non solar tiles so you could just skip the panels in whichever parts you wanted.
Roof construction is quite different here to the US though. We never have the plywood layer, it’s either ceramic tile or Colorbond steel directly onto usually wooden sometimes steel beams.
For roofs, hail is another consideration, hail damage causes complication. Age of roof is another consideration, you don't want to do solar anytime, the right time is when the roof needs to be replaced, which is usually ~25 years.
https://pitchroofing.com/roofing/the-best-time-to-get-a-roof...
They end up installed at commercial locations ideal for solar: often on covered parking, in fields, or on industrial roofs. Easier to repair, they can do larger panels, no issues with your roof line or roof condition.
10/10 would recommend.
And a member of a wind farm project (Ripple Energy) which went bankrupt. So like all small investment schemes, I guess you need to keep a close eye on their financials.
If you just care about the overall transition to solar (which you should!) then you can pay for green tariffs and invest in existing solar energy companies or ETFs.
The article seemed fine to me.
It’s hard to trust “reporting” when it’s historically operated more like a tabloid.
Which source would you prefer? Frankly, really only Tesla-obsessive websites are going to be talking about this at all; for any normal business news outlet, something which has sold 3,000 units in ten years isn't worth thinking about at all.
Sure, it was more expensive than a shingled roof, but less expensive than a shingled roof with solar on top. Add to that, it looks better.
People generally limit the number of roofs to one, as they are expensive and important for keeping the outside out and the inside in.
Residential roofs are more or less the worst place possible to put solar panels.
What does this mean?
And why is it the worst place to put solar panels? Is this and America only phenomenon, cause in India people are installing them like hot cakes on the roof. What’s different about roofs here?
It doesn't need to compete with normal panels on only one metric. People will accept longer payoff times for aesthetics or durability if the ratio is right. Also, who really cares about Tesla at this point? Other companies are now producing these panels.
Like everything Musk, it died because of his poor business practices and his politics. The only thing he seems to excel at these days is extracting government money.
Solarcity was clearly a great example of Elon's ,,no investor left behind'' philosophy: if he promotes a company and gets investors to invest in it, he is doing whatever he can to make sure that they at least don't lose their money (by merging it to a bigger company he controls), even if it wouldn't be the best financial decision.
So far this strategy has been working quite well for both him and the investors.
Frank being against Elon speaks less about Frank and more about Elon in my eyes.
"FSD disengages just before the collision." The other video angle shows that the driver presses the brake, which disengages FSD. "Tesla consistently hides information from the court." There are two different cases separated by years. The police got all the information they needed in the first case. "FSD is 10x worse than the average driver." The uncertainty of the number due to insufficient statistics makes the comparison moot.
He might not specifically lie, but puts such a negative spin on anything Elon-related that the overall result is essentially a lie.
Solar shingles (Tesla roof, GAF) seem like a smart idea -- why do 2 layers of install, shingles and solar panels, instead save on both material and labor by using solar shingles.
It didn't work because the shingles are small, massively increasing the number of parts, connectors, and wiring -- and all the intensive skilled labor that it needs. Labor needs to be skilled as well as increases the number of hours. It also increases failure rates (at install time?) as well as lifecycle maintenance costs from repairs. Standard shingled roof (not the solar) is just an illegal immigrant working for $2/hour with a nail gun, unskilled labor, finishes things super super quick.
The above is a manual summary from this insightful thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48166226
Could it work in future? We don't know. I think the fundamental constraint is people's existing belief system on what a roof is supposed to look like and unwillingness to consider that all roofs don't have to look the same. Perhaps its possible to let go of existing shingle design, build massive panels and make it a structural roof along with metal, but it may not have any buyers. And most definitely will not be accepted by any HOA. Most of the US in in a HOA regime. Any tiniest variation from the rigid HOA rules and regulations (slightly different shade) will require an entire roof rebuild. The constraint is not technological, but human beliefs (about what a roof should look like) and existing rigid structures on how we organized our society.
It doesn't blend with the surrounding slates (asphalt shingles are rare in the UK, use of asphalt is more for flat roofs and sheds), but .. how much does that really matter? It sounds like US HOAs have replicated the worst aspects of UK "conservation areas", preventing building variation, while not actually preserving anything other than a McMansion style of no historical or aesthetic importance?
Apparently integrated panels can be a little less efficient in hot weather as they don't get cooled by airflow under the panels and are less efficient when hotter. But it's a pretty minor effect, maybe a few percent of output. Seems like the best option on a new-build or if you're re-roofing anyway.
I forget who but it reminds me of electric cars with speakers to restore the engine noise. There is nothing beautiful about noise.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/heres-what-the-electric...
Everyone gets caught up in the thermal management stuff and the power density stuff and whatever but to me that's a red herring.
The real issue is that Tesla has never known the ability to produce solar panels at scale and Musk said in that recent interview with Dwarkesh that he intends to do all the solar production in house.
So where's he getting the sand from? How are they going to purify it at scale? How are they going to turn it into ingots and then wafers and then cells and panels when they haven't even been able to produce a slim fraction of panels without all those extra steps over the past decade for their roofs?
And if the goal is to have the industrial capacity to do all this in a few years and produce solar panels on the scale that he's talking about -- why doesn't he just lay those bad boys down en masse on Earth and solve the impending climate crisis and our current energy shortages?
It just doesn't make sense.
I'm split on the datacenter-in-space stuff. I don't know whether I should disbelieve it because there is, obviously, no good way to evacuate heat in space, or because Musk talked about it, and he has an uncanny track record of not upholding his promises.
No they don't, they procure them from Taiwan Solar Energy Corp. They do not produce or manufacture their own cells, they're using off the shelf components.
These things carry a lot of current though, so I would certainly not trust anyone without proper tools and training to put them on a roof.
The Australian market is largely adding trad PV panels to existing housing, but there are signs of greater uptake of integrated PV + weather proof + thermal insulation roofing panels by architects and hopefully will be seen more on new mass produced housing plans.
~ https://arena.gov.au/projects/integrated-pv-solar-roofing/
I recently had 9.2kw of solar panels installed in the SE of England, the actual cost of the panels themselves was ~£1k. I’ve seen new installs going up with standard cheap panels nicely inset, flush into the roof itself. The roofers themselves have told me they are cheaper than a traditional roof due to the decreasing price of panels and ever increasing price of tile. Got a listed property with a slate roof? Solar could save you potentially £10k+ according to one roofer I spoke to.
Panels were and always were going to be dumb commodity items. There’s literal fields literally filled with the things everywhere. Compare to say something like the PowerWall which they still sell bucket loads of and I have one myself, Elon be damned…
However, the PowerWall still suffers from that worst of all tech bro sins of trying to limit YOUR access to YOUR data. I wanted to add an ESP CYD to display all my Home Assistant data when we had solar installed to help us as a family see what was happening in realtime. It’s incredibly useful - In typical HN fashion I rolled my own and avoided ESPHome, making it just how I wanted and I love it! 3d printed case and all! Boots in 2 seconds and just works!
I had obviously and wrongly assumed the PW3 would be easy as pie. Getting realtime data out of the PW3 is a freaking Kafka-esque nightmare… the only workable solution to which was setting up another dedicated ESP32 to connect directly to the PW own perm on wifi and weird custom API and shunt the data over BT. Tesla could break it all at a moments notice with an update and i’ll be out of hours trying to fix it. The whole thing is cat&mouse hoop jumping, the likes of which I haven’t seen since the earlier console hacking days. Tesla will display the realtime data through their servers, through their app, but if you want that…
Anyway, please everybody who’s all gung ho on the Anthropic and OpenAI hype trains remember - every single big tech company has had the exact same disregard for you, your family, your home and your planet since the start. It’s probably more consistent than Moore’s law at this point. Nothing is going to be different this time around.
I on the other hand, Maximus Virtus, am a net gain to humanity when I hack into tech products for visualizing my home’s data.
This seems to be overblown. I've seen plenty of string inverters around without issues, I'm not sure why this being used against Tesla in particular.
But yeah, not really their unique problem. Just cheaper solution that is out there.
They actually had to develop it (with Tesla shareholders' money) after buying out the failing SolarCity.
Elon Musk is like that developer you hired which always promises "this feature will be ready tommorow" and it end's up in the backlog for 6 years. The richest person in the world who understood that the world is not built on trust anymore and all you need is hype.
> Tesla acquired SolarCity for $2.6 billion partly on the strength of this vision [of producing thousands
Ouch. The whole point was that it was supposed to be cheaper.
I do think it's an interesting idea to use panels everywhere, but it can't be a complicated and expensive solution. You could maybe use them as a facade or lately people have used them for fences.
Their cars have build quality issues, self driving continues to be "just around the corner", their service centers are cheap, the solar roof is it's own nightmare, the pivot to robots is laughable, the robot taxis are a PR stunt that are amusing but in a cringey way...
And the promises over the years of automatic chargers, replaceable batteries, sensors, etc.
The company had a great idea early, had tons of goodwill, a growing manufacturing capacity, and squandered it chasing whatever Elon dreamt up.
At one point after signing the contract, Tesla mailed him and notified that his previous signed contract was void and they sent him a new contract where the price had doubled to over $100k. They told he he had to sign the new contract in order for it to go forward.
This is classic Elon Musk tactic, which is to do whatever the fuck you want, laws be damned, and then try to bully your way through it. My friend didn't budge. They would call him or email him and kept harrassing him to sign the new contract and he said no. I don't remember there being a lot of news about this but I couldn't believe they had the gall to try this, although as I said, this is classic Elon Musk tactics.
Eventually I think other solar roof customers started to band together, and eventually Tesla caved and honored the original contract, as if they were doing him a favor. I'm not surprised that this technology is going to fail because it's too expensive and Musk's promise of dropping prices, surprise surprise!, never manifested.
Hmm actual solar panels are so cheap now could you use them as large shingles on a new build?
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/10/jeffrey-epst...
[2] https://fortune.com/2026/02/13/kimbal-musk-jeffrey-epstein-h...
[3] https://www.denverpost.com/2026/02/13/kimbal-musk-epstein-fi...
I’m open to understand why I might be wrong though.
I think marketwatch or financial times from the title…
