HN Bookmarklet: Show PG's essay footnotes in-line on hover (opens in new tab)

(gist.github.com)

41 pointsvnorby13y ago23 comments

23 comments

23 comments · 9 top-level

pg13y ago· 7 in thread

The Back button works for links within a page, incidentally.

vnorbyOP13y ago

If you'd like, you can drop in the JS code at the bottom of the page and it will make your footnotes easier to read automatically. It's not the jumping that's as much the problem as losing the context upon jumping.

raldi13y ago

It's nice to be able to see the footnote and the main text at the same time. (I usually open side-by-side windows to read your essays.)

diminish13y ago

I was also thinking about the footnote problem, while reading PG's most recent essay [1]. Maybe, it is time to kill or supersede footnotes on the web which are one of the examples of the paper text format skeuomorphisms, more common in scientific writing. Footnotes give the serious feeling of a well planned and well thought attire to essays where the main point is elaborated and the distractions are left out, for a delayed, independent, optional reading. However they make the deep readers'[2] experience worse; mainly they prefer to follow the true thought-flow of the writer, and evaluate each footnote in its context rather than separate from the main text.

[1] How to get startup ideas http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html

[2] By deep readers, I mean people who don't want to miss a single idea in the essay.

cwe13y ago

Not so well on iOS

bbx13y ago

Simple trick for iOS: use the "Reader" feature of Safari to scroll to the footnotes while maintaining your current scroll in the main window. Switch back and forth whenever you encounter a new footnote (scroll positions are kept in both windows).

kami884513y ago

Hey pg, if I give you a self-contained light piece of JS that does this, would you consider including it in your website? This would also work on mobile.

qu4z-213y ago

While I'm aware that works, I generally prefer footnotes with a link back to the source of the footnote. Just my 5 cents.

ggchappell13y ago· 4 in thread

This is attacking a problem that needs a lot more attention: how should footnotes (or endnotes or whatever) be handled? In other words, what is a good way to handle the addition of optional material in an otherwise linear text?

That said, looks like a nice idea. Not sure how much I like this particular solution yet. Thanks for posting.

byoung213y ago

As an English major, I read a lot of Shakespeare plays, and I liked the versions that had sidenotes, so that the note appeared at the same level of the line it referred to. This technique translates well to the browser using a hover or click, as seen here: http://rapgenius.com/Drake-the-motto-lyrics

JasonFruit13y ago

I'm surprised that HTML doesn't have a <note> construct; it seems like something that fit the original concept, and should have been a part of the initial design. Browsers could legitimately have a lot of latitude about how to render them, in or out of a page.

laughinghan13y ago

http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ has notes off to the side whenever there's a * in the main text, which I like a lot. The fixed width can be annoying, though.

seunghomattyang13y ago

Grantland does a really great job.[1] It's probably because Bill Simmons, the founder of Grantland, uses footnotes extensively in his writing.

[1] Example here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8486795/the-harden-dilem...

vnorbyOP13y ago· 2 in thread

#FirstWorldProblem: Reading footnotes on PG's essays makes you lose your place, so if you're like me you never read them until you get to the bottom. Solution: Bookmarklet.

kirillzubovsky13y ago

What's really amazing is that every now and again someone makes HN easier to read and use, and every time after about an hour, no one cares again. Simple text with simple styles just works, because the content is unbelievably good. Everything else is just bells and whistles.

Good job on the bookmarklet, though I am not sure if anyone will actually use it :) I think it's one of those things where you think it's a good idea, but really it's not quote as big of a problem as it seems.

vnorbyOP13y ago

What you're saying is true. It's a small problem and people will forget; they always do. My real intention was to make it easy enough that there was a chance (a very small one indeed) PG would stick it at the bottom of the page and never have to think about it again.

georgeorwell13y ago· 1 in thread

PG's blog posts would be somewhat more navigable if the footnote number at the bottom was linked back to the original citation / reference.

jarek13y ago

But that would bring them out of the 90s. Unacceptable bloat in an otherwise MVP

scscsc13y ago

Another possibility would be to place them as side-notes (the essays only take very little horizontal space -- the rest could be used for notes).

jakub_g13y ago

For this kind of problems, I prefer userscripts solutions over bookmarklets as they don't require any intervention from my side -- they auto-load, which is great. This is the typical scenario for a userscripts -- predictable URL sets on where they should fire.

Think about adding this to http://userscripts.org/. Userscripts are handled via GreaseMonkey extension in Firefox and from what I know, natively by Chrome but I never checked.

Side note: believe me or not, but I stopped using bookmarks toolbar in my Firefox a year ago or two; I store bookmarks with short memorable names and use kbd to launch them; CTRL-T/CTRL-L, type, ENTER. I abandoned having a toolbar since I was never able to keep visual order in it after constantly adding new items.

napoleond13y ago

Awesome. I always tell myself I'm going to make something like this when reading pg's essays (I specifically remember re-thinking it during the last one) and then never do. Now I don't have to--thanks! :)

saturdayplace13y ago

A couple years ago, the Django Advent had a nifty JS enhancement for footnotes. I thought it worked so well I stole it for a personal project of mine. I would've linked to the original but they're now offline, so if you'll pardon the personal plug you can see it in action at http://sonsofterra.com/

username313y ago

http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html

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23 comments

23 comments · 9 top-level

pg13y ago· 7 in thread

The Back button works for links within a page, incidentally.

vnorbyOP13y ago

raldi13y ago

It's nice to be able to see the footnote and the main text at the same time. (I usually open side-by-side windows to read your essays.)

diminish13y ago

[1] How to get startup ideas http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html

[2] By deep readers, I mean people who don't want to miss a single idea in the essay.

cwe13y ago

Not so well on iOS

bbx13y ago

kami884513y ago

Hey pg, if I give you a self-contained light piece of JS that does this, would you consider including it in your website? This would also work on mobile.

qu4z-213y ago

While I'm aware that works, I generally prefer footnotes with a link back to the source of the footnote. Just my 5 cents.

ggchappell13y ago· 4 in thread

That said, looks like a nice idea. Not sure how much I like this particular solution yet. Thanks for posting.

byoung213y ago

JasonFruit13y ago

laughinghan13y ago

http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ has notes off to the side whenever there's a * in the main text, which I like a lot. The fixed width can be annoying, though.

seunghomattyang13y ago

Grantland does a really great job.[1] It's probably because Bill Simmons, the founder of Grantland, uses footnotes extensively in his writing.

[1] Example here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8486795/the-harden-dilem...

vnorbyOP13y ago· 2 in thread

#FirstWorldProblem: Reading footnotes on PG's essays makes you lose your place, so if you're like me you never read them until you get to the bottom. Solution: Bookmarklet.

kirillzubovsky13y ago

vnorbyOP13y ago

georgeorwell13y ago· 1 in thread

PG's blog posts would be somewhat more navigable if the footnote number at the bottom was linked back to the original citation / reference.

jarek13y ago

But that would bring them out of the 90s. Unacceptable bloat in an otherwise MVP

scscsc13y ago

Another possibility would be to place them as side-notes (the essays only take very little horizontal space -- the rest could be used for notes).

jakub_g13y ago

Think about adding this to http://userscripts.org/. Userscripts are handled via GreaseMonkey extension in Firefox and from what I know, natively by Chrome but I never checked.

napoleond13y ago

saturdayplace13y ago

username313y ago

http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse