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0 pointsZeroGravitas15h ago0 comments

Trading across borders seems to be a part of this story.

If your local price is high you can import, if it's low you can export.

If you're at the end of a grid and/or your transmission capacity is limited your price has the possibility to go higher or lower without that damping mechanism.

Electricitymaps has a pricing layer which seems to show central Europe moving in sync when I randomly check it:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes?sig...

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tonfa15h ago

And the counter intuitive thing is that people in countries with lots of renewables and not so many external links (e.g. Scandinavia with hydro) might be against adding more links since it will increase electricity prices.

joe_mamba15h ago

So energy in Spain is cheap because they produce a lot but can't sell a lot easily, and Austria/Central Europe is expensive because they sell their domestic energy too easily?

If this is what you meant, then it sounds like an argument against free trade, if it means you keep ending up with the short stick.

HPsquared14h ago

Free trade doesn't always benefit everyone equally, only a net benefit overall. It's a bit like how people often misinterpret the second law of thermodynamics "but the entropy decreased when the ice froze!"

ZeroGravitasOP15h ago

Economists would say that the money coming in outweighs the higher costs and therefore you could redistribute that money and everyone comes out ahead.

Whether that happens in real life is a different question.

joe_mamba15h ago

>Economists would say that the money coming in

Does that money go directly into my pocket so I can afford the more expensive energy? Or does it go into the pocket of private energy companies?

Because I feel like there's some faults with this "free market", which is mostly just socializing losses and privatizing profits.

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ViewTrick100214h ago

Electricity is expensive in Central Europe because the ETS system (carbon trading) has made fossil based production expensive.

We’re right in the middle of the transition with maximum volatility swinging between extremely cheap renewables and expensive fossil plants.

MakersF3h ago

I checked and it looks like ETS are increasing prices of gas produced electricity 20-30€/MWh. So not little (although peaks are around 140€/MWh). But these are taxes that can be used to reduce the reliance on gas (actually, it's mandatory to use them for transition projects).

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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tonfa15h ago

joe_mamba15h ago

So energy in Spain is cheap because they produce a lot but can't sell a lot easily, and Austria/Central Europe is expensive because they sell their domestic energy too easily?

If this is what you meant, then it sounds like an argument against free trade, if it means you keep ending up with the short stick.

HPsquared14h ago

ZeroGravitasOP15h ago

Economists would say that the money coming in outweighs the higher costs and therefore you could redistribute that money and everyone comes out ahead.

Whether that happens in real life is a different question.

joe_mamba15h ago

>Economists would say that the money coming in

Does that money go directly into my pocket so I can afford the more expensive energy? Or does it go into the pocket of private energy companies?

Because I feel like there's some faults with this "free market", which is mostly just socializing losses and privatizing profits.

1 more reply

ViewTrick100214h ago

Electricity is expensive in Central Europe because the ETS system (carbon trading) has made fossil based production expensive.

We’re right in the middle of the transition with maximum volatility swinging between extremely cheap renewables and expensive fossil plants.

MakersF3h ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse