But more to the point, while you may think the meaning is a bit obvious, the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test. I'm sure there are tons of people thinking "Ha ha, this is the perfect commentary on all those idiot <people on the other side who I disagree with> wrapping themselves up in their ideology of <patriotism/social justice/cause du jour> as they march <some particular country/society/the world at large off a cliff>".
In other words, I'm guessing you probably felt the meaning was "obvious" because you filled in the blanks in the above madlibs-style statement in a way that feels obvious to you, and I think folks on "the other side" would probably fill in the blanks with the exact opposite notions in a way that feels "obvious" to them.
Banksy is from Bris'l which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter).
Cornwall has had a white cross on a black flag since 18something. Devon decided to adopt a black edged white cross on a green flag. I remember seeing Devon flag car stickers in the '80s - its a little older than that. Somerset now has ... a flag. Yellow and red I think.
No idea why because people can't decide what it is! The land itself knows exactly what and where it is but the political boundaries ebb and flow with the phases of the moon. Is Avon included ... what is Avon? Ooh, BANES - Somerset? Not today thank you. It goes on. Anyway, do Devon and Somerset and co really need a flag? No of course not.
What we really need is a Wessex flag, which will take over Mercia ... and a few other regional efforts ... and end up as a red cross on a white background. Then we could munge that with a couple of other flags and confuse the entire world with something called the Union Flag.
Then we can really get complicated ... hi Hawaii!
If anything, I'm more surprised Banksy didn't depict literal flag-shagging.
This is part of what's obvious. The whole thing, including this oooh aahh Rorschach part, is obvious. It's thoughts that we all had in high school, and it is hack.
From a British perspective there's no ambiguity, flag shagging is a right-wing activity.
His other works aren't subtle.
I don’t understand this. What speaks pro-establishment in this piece?
There's nothing about subtly in that claim, and all forms of art are equally valid, if not the same quality.
Bansky's art has always been blunt and whimsical, probably because he makes popular street art. It's meant to be "accessible" for your average passerby who might only engage with it for a fraction of a second, but maybe get a little surprise when they do.
That says more about "the people below" on HN to me. There's a strong strand of contrarian, pseudo-intellectual sophistry. I.e. it's "clever" to talk yourself out of seeing the obvious.
It's also referencing the recent flag controversies in the UK over the past year.
Did you look at his artwork of a judge hitting a protestor with a gavel while the protestor was bleeding on the ground and think “huh, I wonder what this means” (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2z30p033ro).
By those standards a man wrapped in the flag walking off the edge is the height of subtlety. I guarantee you this - none of the people it should be offending will realise he’s talking about them.
Which flag? Or, what kind of flag? Or does it matter?
If you asked 100 people to imagine a particular flag to attach to that statue, 95% of them are going to be current, unrecognized, or former states.
It's not like Banksy is known for being a sophisticated highfalutin MFA student anyway. Like it or not, appealing to the masses with simple and clear moral messages has always been his deal.
Now? He makes millions off his work while still thumbing his nose at capitalism? Doesn't ring the same any more. You can't claim to be fighting against the same system that you use to make millions.
Banksy is sometimes interesting but he and subtle don't belong on the same planet.
Sadly, in this day and age, that simple one-punch obvious meaning is just what's needed.
I have no idea what it is supposed to mean.
If we don't remind ourselves of these situations to be aware of we can easily get mired in our daily lives and forget these important matters. It becomes easy to ignore. Especially if the bad stuff does not effect you. If one becomes complacent, one becomes part of the problem in the hope the problem won't come after them.
This same thing goes for anything that needs to stick whether its programming, therapy, or playing a musical instrument. The more you practice something the more it sticks.
I also think obviousness is overindexed as the indicator of bad art because it's often the easiest property to articulate about something thoroughly bad. A lot of the tv and movies that make me quote the robot devil ("You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!") would not be improved by making the characters subtler. They could be the same level, or even more forthcoming, if the writing sounded like natural conversations real people have.
“I remember when all this was trees” [1] is maybe the best example. Detroit hasn’t been “trees” in something like two centuries. Platitudes doused in treacle.
[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/01/ba...
For clarity, the shredder was part of the work and the sale was of the half destroyed piece along with shredder and chaff.
Off the top of my head, I'd guess the message is closer to an observation about being disconnected from history in the modern world leading to vaguely defined feelings of angst and alienation.
It is vague enough to appear deep to those trying to find something deep but not concrete enough to appear as anything that will stick in people's minds for more than a week. Unfortunately a lot of modern art is like this.
There are many examples of the same thing: Andy Warhol and the soup cans and screen-printed portraits with different color backgrounds or Led Zeppelin and English folk hard rock songs that have hobbits in them are two of them.
Eventually, it's hard to even process their work in the context of how predictable and trite it seems to be a few decades later.
Plus the execution is also part of the art.
Unfortunately, they often don't meet that bar, so the message has to be in a form they can understand.
(I'm a fan of Banksy because he isn't afraid to speak out against the blatant murder carried out because of flags and nationalism)
There are fights worth fighting: for example there are 300 million women alive who have undergone forced genital mutilation. 300 million ain't cheap change. There are also hundreds of millions of people who applauded the killing of 1200 young civilians who were enjoying life at a music festival "because it's resistance".
Applauding the killing of young unarmed civilians, genitally mutilating women and turning a blind-eye to a regime slaughtering 30 000+ of its own unarmed civilians is where I personally draw the line and consider there are maybe more important things to complain about than, say, "the patriarchal western society built by heterosexual white men" or some other woke non-sense like that.
Now to be honest Banksy did art criticizing war overall, not just war started by the west. So a generous reading could consider that he also criticizes things like the 800 000 deaths during the Hutu vs Tutsi war.
But still overall: lots of balls from western artists when it's about criticizing the west, but tiny tiny nuts when it's about, say, attacking the ideology that is responsible for 300 people enjoying music at the Bataclan and then getting slaughtered.
But these people can live with their own conscience: I speak up and I've got mine.
You are wrong.
into the void, or off the edge?
"off the edge" is a clear interpretation of the statue. "into the void" is a bit more of a stretch. IMHO.
But that's art for you. Everyone has their own take on it.
Since that's all the info it gives us, it is acceptable to believe what we are shown is what we are "supposed to" see.
When Whistler paints one half of his mother's profile, I just naturally assume she has the other half of her body, too.
It's not so much a secret as it is simply not public.
I think his name not being blasted everywhere has more to do with it being thoroughly uninteresting than any gentlemen's agreement.
>less than two months after a journalism investigation into Banksy’s true identity was published
gives a false impression. The daily mail published his name and photo in 2008 https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-3478606/Scientists-sa...
his remaining semi anonymous does make it harder for the authorities to send him fines for graffiting stuff though.
Can you point me to where he expressed agreement with the global bureaucratic regime? Interested to educate myself.
The fact that the statue was allowed to stay up means that the authorities approved it. So, Banksy isn't really counterculture, he's government approved counterculture.
When did that change?
There's always a response that his work is "anti-establishment", despite it often giving support of the establishment's viewpoints (read: liberal).
The hypocrisy seems lost on his fans/proponents.
Just imagine thinking this piece is somehow anti-establishment / thorn in the side of power, yet it was erected in one of the most surveilled areas in London and he's somehow got away with it?
Give me a break.
Westminster City Council has told the BBC it did not grant permission, as it was not given advance warning that Banksy's team was planning this installation.
Council permits are usually quite public (in my country). Sneaking it in becomes part of the artwork.
(Though it's not in /the/ City of London. That wouldn't happen in a million years! City of Westminster is way more culturally flexible)
The City is dead at night. If an artist wants to put art there, they'd just as somebody else said, dress up like they are workmen and be fine.
"I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded." -George CarlinModern Slavery Stats:
1. Asia and the Pacific: ~29.3 million (6.8 per 1000 ppl)
2. Africa: ~7.0 million (5.2 per 1000)
3. Europe and Central Asia: ~6.4 million (6.9 per 1000)
4. Americas: ~5.1 million (5 per 1000)
5. Arab States: ~1.7 (10.1 per 1000 [highest] )
It also discounts the value of groups, absent concerns about competition. No man is an island, and the society you grow up in, the people you grow up with, greatly affect who you become and what your life is like. To say it doesn't matter who you live around discards all that, or reveals the profound mistake (or lie) of thinking who makes up a society doesn't affect what the society is like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_slave
This is arguably the reason why the Overton window has shifted towards the rejection of human slavery over the last century or so, with the growth of fossil fuel use.
Human slavery will thus likely swing back into fashion again in the future as oil, coal and natural gas run out.
I suspect that Banksy and his fans are sure that it's "the other" Britons that are blinded, it's not a self-reflection prompt for them. Maybe I am wrong.
Maybe a more powerful piece of art would have that self reflection effect across the board. As is it feels about as nuanced as "fuck trump" and similar. If you already agree you already agree, if not then you just think it's stupid. So ultimately feels like impotent art unless I am totally misunderstanding.
the fact that it has many different interpretations in this thread suggest it's more nuanced than that. Though it's not some super subtle thing you have to be an art expert to understand, I'll give you.
> Maybe a more powerful piece of art would have that self reflection effect across the board. As is it feels about as nuanced as "fuck trump" and similar. If you already agree you already agree, if not then you just think it's stupid.
So close. Based on your own statement, it appears that you disagree with the proposed thesis by this piece of art.
> So ultimately feels like impotent art unless I am totally misunderstanding.
Maybe you should re-examine why you think it is stupid/lame. Is it because it calls you out and you don't like that feeling?
What if the design was made by generative model, does the statue become more or less valuable?
I think you're wildly overestimating the general population's capacity for nuance.
Particularly in a world where nuance goes the same way as wood logs near a fire place.
(Statue (of a man (blinded by a flag (put up by Banksy)))) in central London
It is intended to be
((Statue (of a man (blinded by a flag))) (put up by Banksy)) in central London
You really don't see any good ol' fashioned short and sweet headlines that read best to the ear in a Mid-Atlantic accent anymore.
Will Banksy's legacy be more or less the same?
Did you miss the whole Brexit thing?
Not sure who you think "they" are but "This is England" is superb. It deals with a lot of issues, way beyond just nationalism and the like.
Perhaps you would like to fix your gimlet gaze on "A Clockwork Orange" and deliver a further withering critique.
A simple explanation regarding the increase of the number of nationalists within England is the population has increased. QED.
This contradiction at the heart of it does a lot of work and is a very valuable part of the art. This contradiction has led me to think a lot about rules and their role in society and to what extent pure strict rules based societies are a worthwhile goal and on the other hand what it means of we make exceptions.
1. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/global-a...
As seen by the raised fist, the man is angry because the operation Epic Fiber has caused a blockage just in the strait of Trump, so is a metaphor about the dangers of having too much nuts in the world. Banski has planned also that the flag ends totally white by seagull activity; so this, always evolving and deceivingly simple piece of art, gives us hope for a future restoration of the blockage soon before we end nuking everybody on the process.
Denouncing the raise to nuttionalism while providing hope for the future. A powerful message.
See?, this is art, everybody can sell anything with a little practice. If they can sell a banana taped in a wall, so you can too.
There's a (mostly terrible) documentary about a previous bansky "statue" deposited in London that, in one of its better moments, tracks down the people who actually make statues for artists like banksy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Banksy_Job
edit: I feel I should clarify that this is not an official Banksy documentary. He made "Exit Through the Gift Shop" which is an amazing film which I highly recommend to anyone.
The Wall Street Bull was a guerilla art piece too. It's a real bronze. Weighs about three metric tons. It's hugely popular, although it's been moved a few times. Banksy's work should be replicated in bronze and stone and placed permanently.
This is the better spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6EmX2jPiaKRNtNtr8 51°30'19.0"N 0°08'16.0"W
“Rage against the machine” by doing what the machine wants type thing.
Banksy has some specific and not random sense, this one.. shallowly could be considered IMHO ? (..and being installed Banksy style too). Convenient. "Attributed" could be second-order too (Memex). ?
... that blinds you to any alternative; that indoctrinates distrust in different perspectives; that elevates the humanity of fellow believers above others.
> This urban camouflage guise is very useful for parking in yellow zones, urban/industrial exploration, and crime deterrence. And the thing is… it really works!
The statue is in Westminster, right by Whitehall. The heart of British government. It depicts a figure in a suit, marching off a ledge, completely blinded by a flag.
Who wears a suit and marches through Westminster under a flag?
- Businessmen? No. Merchants have no country.
- Officials? They wear suits but don't march
- Old-guard politicians? Rarely march or flag-wave with any conviction.
So who are we left with? The populist. The Nigel Farage archetype. The suited firebrand who wrap themselves in nationalist fervor, stoke the rabble, and blindly march everyone right off a cliff.
Banksy isn't known for complex, multi-layered messaging. He is popular precisely because he uses visual shorthand to say plainly what the general public is already thinking. There is no hidden 4D chess; it's just blunt satire about blind patriotism.
Edit: This also explains why the government is happy to keep this particular Banksy on display.
exactly. i mean only to point out that the Banksy work intentionally invokes the figure of Blind Justice to inform the work, however you may interpret it.
More generally, I am wondering if anyone has a good explanation of what makes an artist "click" with the world, become famous, and usually raise the price of his/her artwork. I can bet that today it costs a lot to own anything by Banksy, considering that most of his work is not even "detachable" from its original creation point.
Historically, the black flag is strongly associated with anarchism, anti-state politics, revolt, and rejection of national authority.
Had he colored it in the union jack, then I would've said it was nationalism, and the person is blinded by nationalism.
But. This is Banksy, black-and-white Banksy, so there may be no symbolism behind the black flag, but it's just very interesting. I can't accept that he would not have considered the color of the flag.
Whose flag is blinding whom?
And very likely had very little to do with the current state of the place. Pride at age 21? Meaningless vanity, like being proud of being born with a silver spoon. Pride at age 80? Sure, if it was a life well-lived.
Being cynical that all effort is wasted is played out at this point. Fight for something real. Name what you're against. It should be easy in the UK.
The whole piece is great - https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/hakim-bey-t-a-z-the-...
Or if you have 5 mins to spare, the album version with Bill Laswell is even better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9vMF01Pd8
both the blinding and defiant fist are intentional. there is only one way to die and he controls it
Nationalismus ist eine Kinderkrankheit. Er ist die Masern der Menschheit.
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
... quote via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
The guy is well known and very much part of the establishment.
Much of the media relentlessly continues with its gaslighting of course because the establishment wants and needs immigration.
But people know they barely hear English in many parts of England, see high streets full of criminal fronts [0], know that many are a net tax drain, know an increased population is straining services and housing and so on.
It's about failed immigration - regardless if they're from Poland or from Pakistan.
It is ironically many on the left who are stupid and manipulated by the presence of some far right loons, which gives them a convenient excuse to listen to nobody except themselves. They are blinded by their own smugness and have been manipulated by the pro-immigration establishment sadly
[0] https://www.tradingstandards.uk/media/3183107/hidden-in-plai...
Baby, psyop me, one more time
This should go quickly away unless they confirm he had official permit and he is just "anti-establishment" hipster.
Some artists have questioned if Banksy, once considered anti-establishment, now enjoys special treatment from Britain's powers that be.
In 2014, Vice Media asked: 'Why Is Banksy the Only Person Allowed to Vandalize Britain’s Walls?' The story quoted David Speed, a street artist who ran a British graffiti collective. "It's very much one rule for him and another rule for everyone else ... When street artists do it, it's vandalism. When Banksy does it, it's an art piece."
Contacted by Reuters, Speed praised Banksy as "a really important artist of modern times." Yet he still wonders why "one artist should be able to have carte blanche and everyone else would be subject to penalties."