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0 pointsNobodyNada2mo ago0 comments

Nearly every available filesystem API in Rust's stdlib maps one-to-one with a Unix syscall (see Rust's std::fs module [0] for reference -- for example, the `File` struct is just a wrapper around a file descriptor, and its associated methods are essentially just the syscalls you can perform on file descriptors). The only exceptions are a few helper functions like `read_to_string` or `create_dir_all` that perform slightly higher-level operations.

And, yeah, the Unix syscalls are very prone to mistakes like this. For example, Unix's `rename` syscall takes two paths as arguments; you can't rename a file by handle; and so Rust has a `rename` function that takes two paths rather than an associated function on a `File`. Rust exposes path-based APIs where Unix exposes path-based APIs, and file-handle-based APIs where Unix exposes file-handle-based APIs.

So I agree that Rust's stdilb is somewhat mistake prone; not so much because it's being opinionated and "nudg[ing] the developer towards using neat APIs", but because it's so low-level that it's not offering much "safety" in filesystem access over raw syscalls beyond ensuring that you didn't write a buffer overflow.

[0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/fs/index.html

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9 comments · 2 top-level

juergbi1mo ago· 5 in thread

> So I agree that Rust's stdilb is somewhat mistake prone; not so much because it's being opinionated and "nudg[ing] the developer towards using neat APIs", but because it's so low-level that it's not offering much "safety" in filesystem access over raw syscalls beyond ensuring that you didn't write a buffer overflow.

`openat()` and the other `*at()` syscalls are also raw syscalls, which Rust's stdlib chose not to expose. While I can understand that this may not be straight forward for a cross-platform API, I have to disagree with your statement that Rust's stdlib is mistake prone because it's so low-level. It's more mistake prone than POSIX (in some aspects) because it is missing a whole family of low-level syscalls.

NobodyNadaOP1mo ago

openat() is there, but it's unstable (because the dirfd-related syscalls are not all fully implemented and tested across all platforms Rust supports yet): https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/fs/struct.Dir.html#method.open...

rendaw1mo ago

There are lots of unstable things in Rust that have been unstable for many years, and the intentional segregating of unstable means that it's a nonstarter for most use cases, like libraries. It's unstable because there's significant enough issues that nobody wants to mark it as stable, no matter what those issues are.

As long as it's unstable it's totally fair to say Rust's stdlib does not expose them. You might as well say it's fixed because someone posted a patch on a mailing list somewhere.

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kibwen1mo ago

They're not missing, Rust just ships them (including openat) as part of the first-party libc crate rather than exposing them directly from libstd. You'll find all the other libc syscalls there as well: https://docs.rs/libc/0.2.186/libc/ . I agree that Rust's stdlib could use some higher-level helper functions to help head off TOCTOU, but it's not as simple as just exposing `openat`, which, in addition to being platform-specific as you say, is also error-prone in its own right.

nh21mo ago

But those are all unsafe, taking raw strings.

Why can I easily use "*at" functions from Python's stdlib, but not Rust's?

They are much safer against path traversal and symlink attacks.

Working safely with files should not require *const c_char.

This should be fixed .

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bonzini1mo ago

The correct comparison is to rustix, not libc, and rustix is not first-party. And even then the rustix API does not encapsulate the operations into structs the same way std::fs and std::io do.

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masklinn2mo ago· 2 in thread

> For example, Unix's `rename` syscall takes two paths as arguments; you can't rename a file by handle

And then there’s renameat(2) which takes two dirfd… and two paths from there, which mostly has all the same issues rename(2) does (and does not even take flags so even O_NOFOLLOW is not available).

I’m not sure what you’d need to make a safe renameat(), maybe a triplet of (dirfd, filefd, name[1]) from the source, (dirfd, name) from the target, and some sort of flag to indicate whether it is allowed to create, overwrite, or both.

As the recent https://blog.sebastianwick.net/posts/how-hard-is-it-to-open-... talks about (just for file but it applies to everything) secure file system interaction is absolutely heinous.

[1]: not path

mort961mo ago

How about fd of the file you wanna rename, dirfd of the directory you want to open it in, and name of the new file? You could then represent a "rename within the same directory" as: dfd = opendir(...); fd = openat(dfd, "a"); rename2(fd, dfd, "b");

I can't think of a case this API doesn't cover, but maybe there is one.

masklinn1mo ago

The file may have been renamed or deleted since the fd was opened, and it might have been legitimate and on purpose, but there’s no way to tell what trying to resolve the fd back to a path will give you.

And you need to do that because nothing precludes having multiple entries to the same inode in the same directory, so you need to know specifically what the source direntry is, and a direntry is just a name in the directory file.

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9 comments · 2 top-level

juergbi1mo ago· 5 in thread

NobodyNadaOP1mo ago

rendaw1mo ago

As long as it's unstable it's totally fair to say Rust's stdlib does not expose them. You might as well say it's fixed because someone posted a patch on a mailing list somewhere.

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kibwen1mo ago

nh21mo ago

But those are all unsafe, taking raw strings.

Why can I easily use "*at" functions from Python's stdlib, but not Rust's?

They are much safer against path traversal and symlink attacks.

Working safely with files should not require *const c_char.

This should be fixed .

2 more replies

bonzini1mo ago

The correct comparison is to rustix, not libc, and rustix is not first-party. And even then the rustix API does not encapsulate the operations into structs the same way std::fs and std::io do.

1 more reply

masklinn2mo ago· 2 in thread

> For example, Unix's `rename` syscall takes two paths as arguments; you can't rename a file by handle

As the recent https://blog.sebastianwick.net/posts/how-hard-is-it-to-open-... talks about (just for file but it applies to everything) secure file system interaction is absolutely heinous.

[1]: not path

mort961mo ago

I can't think of a case this API doesn't cover, but maybe there is one.

masklinn1mo ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse