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0 pointsnonethewiser17d ago0 comments

>We have always been wary of AI generated code, but felt everyone is free to do what they want and experiment, etc. But, one of our own, Andy Kirby, decided to branch out and extensively use Claude Code, and has decided to aggressively take over all of the components of the MeshCore ecosystem: standalone devices, mobile app, web flasher and web config tools.

>And, he’s kept that small detail a secret - that it’s all majority vibe coded.

Without any more context, I am highly suspicious of this framing.

1) Someone "taking over" the ecosystem seems like an entirely different issue. How is this possible? Does it mean he's publishing things and people want to use them?

2) Is the code bad? It sounds like they had no idea he was using AI. That seems to imply there was nothing wrong with the code as-is. Why not judge it on it's merits?

>The team didn’t feel it was our place to protest, until we recently discovered that Andy applied for the MeshCore Trademark (on the 29th March, according to filings) and didn’t tell any of us.

Taking this at face value, this is indeed hostile and bad.

But no, I'm not going to get outraged that someone is simply using Claude Code.

0 comments

prism5617d ago

Agreed. I use meshcore and have multiple repeaters setup. I don't care about people using ai assisted coding but I think it should be disclosed especially if its closed source.

Now the trademark take over seems crazy especially given Andy hasn't contributed to the github project, only personal for profit add ons.

I do also think that the meshcore core team have "tacked on" and tried to enforce a stronger narrative with their anti ai coding bias.

jeromegv16d ago

It wasn't ai assisted coding, it was vibe coding from someone with no real coding background. A communication protocol can't be vibe coded, how do you enforce security if the person is unable to understand what the tool created?

Especially when they try to hide that they were using those tools in the first place

nonethewiserOP16d ago

>It wasn't ai assisted coding, it was vibe coding from someone with no real coding background.

Can you elaborate on this?

I'd agree that is problematic. But that's not what the article said. The article just said he was using Claude Code a lot. It's ridiculous to equivocate those two things. That's what I have an issue with.

consp17d ago

> only personal for profit add ons

In that context it is quite logical to take a trademark out once the project is mature enough so you can profit off other people's work.

Considering their user base does not like the hidden vibe coded idea I don't think this is bias but a sane rationalisation.

stingraycharles17d ago

There’s a lot of framing in how questions are asked. I’m going to bet asking the community “Would you like more features if they’re made using AI assistance?” is going to get wildly different results.

1 more reply

bigiain17d ago

"I wrote an iPhone app, so now I have the right to trademark 'Apple'."

IshKebab17d ago

> Is the code bad? It sounds like they had no idea he was using AI. That seems to imply there was nothing wrong with the code as-is. Why not judge it on it's merits?

Anyone that has used AI at all knows this isn't how it works. AI is extremely good at producing plausible-but-wrong outputs. It's literally optimised for plausibility, which happens to coincide with correctness a lot of the time. When it doesn't you get code that seems good and is therefore very difficult to judge on its merits.

With human written code it's a lot easier to tell if it's good or not.

There are exceptions to this - usually if you have some kind of oracle like that security work that used AddressSanitizer to verify security bugs, or if you're cloning a project you can easily compare the behaviour to the original project. Most of the time you don't have that luxury though.

SchemaLoad17d ago

It's also easy to overwhelm reviewers with far more code than they can possibly review. And it's also the hardest stuff to review where the code at surface level looks totally fine, but takes long hours of actual testing to make sure it works.

nonethewiserOP16d ago

If the code is bad why not lambast him for pushing bad code? If he's pushing straight to main why have such shitty controls? If it got through review whats the problem? AI in-and-of-itself is not bad. They never substantiate beyond saying he used Claude Code a lot.

doug_durham17d ago

Just read the code. There is nothing keeping people from reading the code.

ChrisRR16d ago

As far as I know the meshcore app and meshos are closed source

cuu50816d ago

I can't find the source code either for the official MeshCore app or for MeshOS -- where can I read the code?

1 more reply

securicat16d ago

Do folks not write tests and review their own code (AI generated or not)?

Also, citation needed:

> With human written code it's a lot easier to tell if it's good or not

axegon_16d ago

Disagree: I applaud them for doing this. Anyone that says they've reviewed the 1000 lines of slop any AI has spit out is simply lying to everyone and even potentially themselves and has never done a single extensive code review in their life. Reading 1000 lines of text is one thing, reading and analyzing the complexity implications and edge cases in code - no chance. The "I've reviewed the slop" response is the reasons why 0 days and leaks are happening more than ever: because no one really reads the code cause "I vibe-coded it". An extensive and comprehensive code review may take days, and no slopper has ever done that. I'll get a 100 line pr and going over it can easily take hours, especially when something looks wrong and I need to test it. And it's a good reason why I'd never trust the "You are absolutely correct, apologies for the oversight, here's a revised version:"

nonethewiserOP16d ago

>Disagree: I applaud them for doing this. Anyone that says they've reviewed the 1000 lines of slop any AI has spit out

You're assuming the thing in question - that it's just AI slop. They dont offer any insight on that - they merely say he used Claude Code a lot. It shows a real lack of understanding of AI tools to equivocate those two things.

axegon_16d ago

No, it shows responsibility and critical thinking: I don't care if it's slaupecode, alanturingai++ code or whatever other slop machine anyone uses. It's the fact that no one and I mean NO ONE is capable of code reviewing that much crap and everyone that has written any code that was meant to last knows it: pouring a ton crap of code, even as a human, is the easy part if you learn the basics. The hard part is analyzing the problem, considering and addressing edge cases, exploits, memory leaks, resources, constraints and limitations - this is what a programmer is fundamentally responsible for and this is the only skill that matters. The code is just an abstraction, which was never the issue. Sloppers wash their hands with "look at how good it works" and "look at how beautiful the code is" and it's all fun and games before a production system crashes because, as I said, no slopper or an actual programmer has the ability to review 6000 line merge request so they hit "lgtm". Or better yet, outsource the problem to another slop machine. Anyone who believes that "AI tools" are in any shape or form viable for production, clearly do not understand a fundamental concept, called propagation of uncertainty[1].

"Sooo productive", sure, buddy, and when it breaks you have no idea why it broke and ultimately you don't know the codebase. Instructions.md containing:

``` * make no mistakes * don't hallucinate ```

Is the clear-cut evidence that we are speed running towards a technological apocalypse. Ironically, I'm in favour of it: if the house has to burn down for things to get better and people to get back to using their brains, I'm all for it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagation_of_uncertainty

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0 comments

prism5617d ago

Agreed. I use meshcore and have multiple repeaters setup. I don't care about people using ai assisted coding but I think it should be disclosed especially if its closed source.

Now the trademark take over seems crazy especially given Andy hasn't contributed to the github project, only personal for profit add ons.

I do also think that the meshcore core team have "tacked on" and tried to enforce a stronger narrative with their anti ai coding bias.

jeromegv16d ago

Especially when they try to hide that they were using those tools in the first place

nonethewiserOP16d ago

>It wasn't ai assisted coding, it was vibe coding from someone with no real coding background.

Can you elaborate on this?

consp17d ago

> only personal for profit add ons

In that context it is quite logical to take a trademark out once the project is mature enough so you can profit off other people's work.

Considering their user base does not like the hidden vibe coded idea I don't think this is bias but a sane rationalisation.

stingraycharles17d ago

1 more reply

bigiain17d ago

"I wrote an iPhone app, so now I have the right to trademark 'Apple'."

IshKebab17d ago

> Is the code bad? It sounds like they had no idea he was using AI. That seems to imply there was nothing wrong with the code as-is. Why not judge it on it's merits?

With human written code it's a lot easier to tell if it's good or not.

SchemaLoad17d ago

nonethewiserOP16d ago

doug_durham17d ago

Just read the code. There is nothing keeping people from reading the code.

ChrisRR16d ago

As far as I know the meshcore app and meshos are closed source

cuu50816d ago

I can't find the source code either for the official MeshCore app or for MeshOS -- where can I read the code?

1 more reply

securicat16d ago

Do folks not write tests and review their own code (AI generated or not)?

Also, citation needed:

> With human written code it's a lot easier to tell if it's good or not

axegon_16d ago

nonethewiserOP16d ago

>Disagree: I applaud them for doing this. Anyone that says they've reviewed the 1000 lines of slop any AI has spit out

axegon_16d ago

"Sooo productive", sure, buddy, and when it breaks you have no idea why it broke and ultimately you don't know the codebase. Instructions.md containing:

``` * make no mistakes * don't hallucinate ```

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagation_of_uncertainty

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